Picard...checking privilege?

[Shenanigans]

Why didn't the Romulan Star Empire save the Romulan people? Why was it left to Picard? One of the problems with this show is depicting the Romulan Star Empire - which is every bit as powerful as the Federation if not more - suddenly collapsing because of the destruction of Romulus. Would the Federation collapse if its capital world Earth was destroyed and expect the Romulans and Klingons to relocate its population and then be bitter and salty because they failed to help?

The Romulans weren't mad that Picard didn't save them. Picard was mad that the federation didn't do all they could to help the Romulans. Apart from the Romulans that he evacuated and then abandoned on that planet, I don't think the Romulan people cared about Picard either way.

 

[cooleddie74]

Walks into thread:

 

[cooleddie74]

The Federation is a humanitarian armada.

Discuss.

Actually the Federation is a political union of more than 150 planetary and colony governments under one flag and interstellar foreign policy and Starfleet is the armada, but I'd hardly consider it "humanitarian" except to the extent that Starfleet is almost never seen as being an aggressive and dehumanizing(so to speak) organization and tends to do a lot more good than it does bad. Captain Pike's description in the 2009 film is one of the most mangled, poorly-written definitions of the Federation I've ever heard.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

huh.. Privlage? somewhat maybe.. its mainly Patrick Stewarts own reactions to Brixit and refugee problem, and his opinions on what it is/should be.
I personally think that, like all those Luke would never go in to hiding theory mongers. that Picard would have not have given up, all through out Tng, he digs in like an alabama tick and doesn't let go until he is satisfied.. He would have threatened his resignation, but he wouldn't have done it, He wouldn't have ANY power if he did, he was an admiral, he could have atleast gotten a few ships, bugged people untill he got Something.. Him giving up wasn't in his character.

and yes, he comes in on his horse, does what he can, then rides out into the sunset, but he doesn't leave it and not care, like Kirk and Khan.. he makes sure something stays fixed.
But Picard, in my opinion, didn't need to be "Humbled" He was "Superman" as in he symbolized federation ideals in what they should be, the "best of us" and did his best to make sure that happened ( Numerous examples, Baku, etc.)

Exactly-why this was done to him, I have no idea-Picard has nothing to be guilty about. That's not a good plot to happen to him at all.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The Federation is a militant political union that uses its heavily armed armada to facilitate its imperialistic expansion under the guise of peaceful coexistence and understanding.

Discuss.

*And yes, Star Trek is ultimately a show about a bunch of white dudes telling blue, green and brown people what to do and how to do it.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Looking at the interpretation of Picard is his self-titled show, they present him as a man who maybe grew to reliant on his prestige to get his way. I like how he gets shutdown by that admiral when he starts giving a laundry list of things he needs for his mission, and how Starfleet doesn't acquiesce to his demands when he threatens to resign over the cancelled evacuation of Romulus. However, I don't know if PIC-brand Picard really meshes with TNG Picard. He seems more like a progression of Post-Generations movie Picard, who demonstrated a kind of self-righteous zeal which was at times off-putting and seemed aimed at mostly getting him into phaser shootouts and starship battles. Moreover, Starfleet in PIC seems like a more cynical organization that's a far-cry from the more magnanimous Starfleet of 90s Trek, which is also problematic. It would be nice if the next season dealt with Picard working on a way to return Starfleet to its utopian ideals.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The Federation is a militant political union that uses its heavily armed armada to facilitate its imperialistic expansion under the guise of peaceful coexistence and understanding.

Discuss.

*And yes, Star Trek is ultimately a show about a bunch of white dudes telling blue, green and brown people what to do and how to do it.

Fighting a never ending battle for truth, justice, and economic imperialism!

 

[Gov Kodos]

Looking at the interpretation of Picard is his self-titled show, they present him as a man who maybe grew to reliant on his prestige to get his way. I like how he gets shutdown by that admiral when he starts giving a laundry list of things he needs for his mission, and how Starfleet doesn't acquiesce to his demands when he threatens to resign over the cancelled evacuation of Romulus. However, I don't know if PIC-brand Picard really meshes with TNG Picard. He seems more like a progression of Post-Generations movie Picard, who demonstrated a kind of self-righteous zeal which was at times off-putting and seemed aimed at mostly getting him into phaser shootouts and starship battles. Moreover, Starfleet in PIC seems like a more cynical organization that's a far-cry from the more magnanimous Starfleet of 90s Trek, which is also problematic. It would be nice if the next season dealt with Picard working on a way to return Starfleet to its utopian ideals.

I think there is far more natural progression of Picard from TV to film to TV again so far as his moral grandstanding goes than there was for kirk from TV to film. Kirk is arguable two completely different versions from TV to film compared to Picard.

 

[Pauln6]

Kind of makes Nero even more moronic of a character, doesn't it? Calling himself the 'Last of the Romulan Empire'. Pfft. But why stop there when we can make the Romulans within this one show make themselves just as moronic?

Like misguided international aid groups of late 20th-century Earth, Picard and the Federation were guilty of having “no understanding of [the] ingenuity, resolve, and self-sufficiency,” of the people they were trying to save, says former senator, Tenqem Adrev. And then they forgot about them completely.

It seems as though the writer of this piece and the writers of Picard don't understand what kind of a conflict they want the Federation to have with the Romulans.

1. Romulans hate Starfleet for not understanding their ability as a race to prosper on their own.
2. Romulans hate Starfleet for abandoning them on a planet after facing a disaster of their own.
​

These are two arguments that cannot co-exist if we're supposed to take the Romulans' plight seriously. If the Romulans as a species have such high self-sufficiency, ingenuity and resolve, why would being abandoned even be an issue? This comes off less as a plight of a troubled society and more of a whiny bureaucrat who only cares about the bad side of everything. And it gets worse when it's revealed that it was the Romulans themselves who were responsible for Starfleet not aiding in the evacuation Romulus. Not only does your species suck at self-preservation, you were the reason why you were abandoned in the first place!

But for some reason, the show runners want us to believe that Picard is the one who's in the wrong here.

I suppose if you put 'some' Romulans in front of each premise you cover off your objection while simultaneously prevent Romulans from being a monoculture.

 

[Jayson1]

Actually the Federation is a political union of more than 150 planetary and colony governments under one flag and interstellar foreign policy and Starfleet is the armada, but I'd hardly consider it "humanitarian" except to the extent that Starfleet is almost never seen as being an aggressive and dehumanizing(so to speak) organization and tends to do a lot more good than it does bad. Captain Pike's description in the 2009 film is one of the most mangled, poorly-written definitions of the Federation I've ever heard.

But that of course that is a alternate universe that when you look at the effects of time travel was altered all the way back to the Big Bang thus their Federation is a wee bit different. In that one you can even go from cadet to Captain instantly.


Jason

 

[Jayson1]

Exactly-why this was done to him, I have no idea-Picard has nothing to be guilty about. That's not a good plot to happen to him at all.

I agree. You need Picard to feel guilty. Makes more sense though if you have Picard's desire to make amends be something that inspires other to fix their own mistakes and things they are ashamed of. At some point to stay true to the character people need to be inspired by him and not the other way around.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

Looking at the interpretation of Picard is his self-titled show, they present him as a man who maybe grew to reliant on his prestige to get his way. I like how he gets shutdown by that admiral when he starts giving a laundry list of things he needs for his mission, and how Starfleet doesn't acquiesce to his demands when he threatens to resign over the cancelled evacuation of Romulus. However, I don't know if PIC-brand Picard really meshes with TNG Picard. He seems more like a progression of Post-Generations movie Picard, who demonstrated a kind of self-righteous zeal which was at times off-putting and seemed aimed at mostly getting him into phaser shootouts and starship battles. Moreover, Starfleet in PIC seems like a more cynical organization that's a far-cry from the more magnanimous Starfleet of 90s Trek, which is also problematic. It would be nice if the next season dealt with Picard working on a way to return Starfleet to its utopian ideals.

Picard and TNG doesn't always mesh well on the surface. It only works if you realize the passage of time has changed the values of the Federation as well. Picard being cursed at for wanting to help someone is something that would not happen on TNG but if you go with the idea that the Federation is more jaded and cynical because of the Dominion War and the Synch attack then it works but of course it also means the writers have to know that Admiral Clancy is the one out of order in that scene. Well she was correct on him doing it in the press but the idea of someone with his status wanting a ship isn't out of order. Granted it's also in line with other Admirals we have seen like Admiral Morrow and the one in First Contact that didn't want the Enterprise to engage the Borg but this does seem to be the first time when fans have sided with the incorrect Admiral over the hero.

Jason

 

[Phily B]

Why do people see privilege and then immediately start talking about race?

Woof woof.

 

[Jayson1]

Privilege often involves race but it wouldn't in the Trek universe so it's kind of hard to make the argument when talking about inter-Federation politics. One of the reasons why aliens are often the stand in for such exploration.

Jason

 

[Jeyl]

I suppose if you put 'some' Romulans in front of each premise you cover off your objection while simultaneously prevent Romulans from being a monoculture.

Except that's not how the episode portrayed it. It wasn't one group of Romulans that fit in column A and another group in column B. Both arguments were made by the same character! This is what the senator is arguing in a nutshell.

"We can take care of ourselves which is why we hate you for leaving us to take care of ourselves!"

Maybe Nicholas Meyer got it wrong. Maybe he didn't need to blow up Ceti Alpha 6 and kill 20 of Khan's followers including his wife. All he needed for Khan to seek revenge on Kirk was the simple argument of being 'abandoned'. That would make sense in the context of Space Seed where Khan relished the idea of building his empire on a new world, but when Kirk leaves? BETRAYAL!

 

[RAMA]

Dramatically, it may have been effective writing for him to be humbled, but not really by privilege but by events. There are problems that can't be easily solved, and that's where a serialized show is more effective than a 45 min solution. Ultimately, he was still a respected former Starfleet officer who accomplished a lot, so maybe he has a grading curve when it comes to results.

As for the "white" description, I think that comes from just a perceived generalization to sum up what bothers people from an arrogant assumption the Picard believed he had and was shot down at times by some of his past associates, including Admiral Clancy and Riker/Troi.

RAMA

Sigh...........the word white is used ZERO times in the piece. I think the writer is using privilege definition to show how Picard champions the plight of various groups over his career he's always been able to beam back to his ship and not had to walk in their shoes. This is shown in Absolute Candor when he leaves Vasti and Elnor, not returning for 15 years. I think it did him good to be humbled by Starfleet and seeing that his actions or inactions have a LOT of impact on other people. He has been pouting for 15 years.

I am not a fan of Ruth Terry, but I cannot completely disagree with her article. "Fans" are already attacking her on Twitter for her article.

 

[Jayson1]

You might have people upset Kirk didn't arrest Khan instead of letting him live on that world. I mean if he went to prison lots of people Khan killed would still be alive. Well in theory. The timeline would change creating a very different future but you know what I mean.


Jason

 

[fireproof78]

Kind of makes Nero even more moronic of a character, doesn't it? Calling himself the 'Last of the Romulan Empire'.

Not really, no. As Spock said, "He is an extremely troubled Romulan." You're applying logic to a character who likely had a psychotic break due to the emotional intensity of watching his world destroyed.

But for some reason, the show runners want us to believe that Picard is the one who's in the wrong here.

Picard is wrong. Starfleet is wrong and the Romulan government is wrong.

 

[Pauln6]

Not really, no. As Spock said, "He is an extremely troubled Romulan." You're applying logic to a character who likely had a psychotic break due to the emotional intensity of watching his world destroyed.

Picard is wrong. Starfleet is wrong and the Romulan government is wrong.

Self interest is the real villain here. So... Seven is right? Except where she's bent on revenge.

 

[fireproof78]

Self interest is the real villain here. So... Seven is right? Except where she's bent on revenge.

Self-interest at the expense of others. So Seven is right... and wrong.

It's almost like this isn't black & white.I know, I was just as shocked as you were.