Picard...checking privilege?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by RAMA, May 21, 2020.

  1. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    His flaw was having too much faith that Starfleet and humanity would have the capacity to look past trivial BS and do the right thing. But actually that's also his strength and that quality about him is the only reason every organic wasn't wiped out in this series and back in TNG by Q.
     
  2. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I think that's both a strength and a flaw, depending on how it manifests. It's a strength insofar as it pushes him to work to do the right thing and gives him the strength to believe in his ability to make change. It's a flaw insofar as it has sometimes led him to some very chauvinistic beliefs about the moral superiority of his own culture over others, and blinded him to some of his own hubris.
     
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  3. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think some of the flaws seem to come from the first couple of seasons of the show when Roddenberry was still laying on the Roddenberry Vision stuff pretty thick. I think that might be the disconnect. The self deluded Picard tends to mostly be from those seasons yet I think I am not alone in that I almost look at TNG as being two shows. Pre and current Pillar. Most of the speeches Picard delivers are actually great moments so I would hard to call these things as examples of flaws. Also Picard is uneven in the movies as well with them trying to make him into a action hero.

    I also went back today and watched the Picard first episode and I noticed that I got a few things wrong and I think many of us might have. The way it happened according to the interview is Starfleet wasn't going to rescue the Romulans and Picard talked them into. The rescue happens and the Synth attack both the fleet and Mars. He tries to mount a second one and is turned down and he quits. The thing though is even though he went off to his home he didn't ignore the Romulan cause completely. They mention that he spent much of that time trying to make people aware of the cause.

    It seems Picard didn't betray the Romulans so much as he turned his back on his friends and family as he sunk into Depression and I would say anger and guilt. All of this not just because he was personally betrayed but also because he saw the Synth ban a insult on Data whose death was not only raw but also Data gave up his life to save him. So he self isolated. Wrote Books and I would think stuff like articles about what needs to be done with the Romulans but really only interacted with his Romulan Friends and later his dog.

    Jason
     
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  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting observation. Again, Picard's behaviors make sense.
     
  5. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well okay, they weren't always perfect, but I feel they at least tried. I don't feel this way about Starfleet in Picard, outside of Riker and Picard maybe. They relent to political pressure about the evacuation of Romulus, they are MIA in a region of space near or in Federation space which seems lawless (where you can zip around in TOS military hardware with impunity), and one of their top officials turns out to be a spy and they're just like :shrug:I do concede that we were viewing this era strictly from the lens of Picard who is no longer a member, and ultimately decided to work around Starfleet. So maybe they are doing much better than how it appears, but I feel a theme of the show was that Starfleet had lost the plot somewhat. The copy-paste Tesco fleet didn't help matters either; how are they doing technologically?
     
  6. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It also made me think of something when it comes to the idea of Picard trying to personally lead a second rescue mission. Would it even be wise for someone in his mental state to do that. It makes think of Ben Maxwell were O'Brien talked about after family died he never missed a duty shift or make a joke with the crew but deep down he clearly was breaking up which led to him attacking Carddisian ships out of revenge. If Picard is going through Depression to a point he would walk away would you want someone like that leading a rescue operation. Picard could no doubt hide his feelings because he clearly did with the Borg until First Contact when the anger finally came out but you have no idea how things could go sideways by having someone in command who shouldn't be.


    Jason
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It's really hard to generalize based upon only Picard the show.
     
  8. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What I dont get is why Raffi had so little concern for Picard. She had a husband / child to fall back on and Picard had no family. She loves him but never checked on him?
     
  9. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That didn't seem to stop Picard in his TV interview. ;) But yes as I stated before, since we're viewing events from outside Starfleet, we're not getting a complete picture. However, I think Picard felt something was off about Starfleet, hence why he resigned.
     
  10. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

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    Based on what the show revealed, her marriage broke up and her relationship with her son was not good. She had nothing but her career, hence her life as a semi hermit after Picard resigned.
     
  11. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It sounded like her relationship with her son went bad because she got obsessed with the romulans, all that must not have happened until much later after losing the career. Meanwhile Picard had no family right out of the gate. He truly only had his career
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  12. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder if Olivia Quest from The Last Best Hope is going to have an on-camera presence next season...but I clearly digress.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  13. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    A short definition of privilege:

    Walking armed into a government building with automatic weapons protesting wearing masks, vs peacefully surrendering to police and getting suffocated with a knee to your neck...over a $20 counterfeit bill.

    RAMA
     
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  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    A short definition of off topic and better suited to Miscellaneous or TNZ:
     
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  15. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    Apparently pretty well considering Riker said the zhen he type was the most powerful ship ever put into service by starfleet.

    Having lots of classes isn't always a good thing. A lot of starfleets earlier designs were redundant. It makes more sense for Starfleet to have 2 or 3 all purpose designs like every other power in the quadrant than 50 classes of middling quality. Its a waste of resources.
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is one thing about the Zheng He(sp?)-type starship that does make sense if we remember Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant 21 years earlier. She brought futuristic technology back with her that could be back-engineered and modified for new classes of starships being introduced in the years after VOY and NEM. The armada Riker commands is comprised of starships that aren't huge by the standards of most Federation starships of the late 24th Century. If they are indeed the most powerful starships that Starfleet has ever constructed that could imply that technology much like that brought back by Voyager was implemented in relatively small vessels to give them enormous tactical punch in a combat situation.

    Starfleet has finally learned to make it's "average-sized" starships as powerful as its heavy explorers and cruisers and thus punching way above and beyond their weight.
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, and well put. I have no issue with the Zheng He type ships because they make sense to be a multi-role vessel capable of answering several needs. Starfleet would be wise to build such vessels in the wake of the Dominion War, Battle of Sector 001 and loss of Utopia Planitia.
    Took them long enough to learn.
     
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  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Humans need a 200-year learning curve. ;)
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I had not liked how seemingly small the Inquiry-class ships (that's what Michael Chabon has identified the USS Zheng He's class as) were in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II," but the possibility that they're constructed to be of minimal size for tactical reasons while still being more powerful than earlier capital ships because of the advanced technology Voyager brought back is something I hadn't thought of. That's a really good insight!
     
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  20. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks! It would only make sense that at least some of the futuristic 25th century tech brought back by Janeway aboard the modified Voyager would be adapted to fit into existing starships and included with new classes on the drawing board in the years after Voyager returned home. Maybe transphasic torpedoes were seen as too powerful or impractical for Starfleet with the Borg seemingly decapitated after Janeway got home, the Cardassians no longer a threat after the Dominion War, the Klingons back to being strong allies and the Romulans definitely in no position to challenge the Federation once the supernova threat emerged, but the other tech could probably be back-engineered and applied to new classes of starships like the Inquiry-class.

    Smaller but with a lot more tactical punch thanks to what Janeway provided Starfleet Intelligence in 2378.
     
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