Picard...checking privilege?

[Sci]

I would say blaming Picard is doing that. Picard's fleet was destroyed, his people murdered on mars, his career sacrificed, hope destroyed by the federation abandoning him. And it becomes apparent after all that, they only care about "what have you done for me lately?"

Oh hogwash. They have every right to be upset the guy who said he'd help them in their hour of desperation abandoned them -- and that anger does not preclude compassion for his suffering, compassion he might have received had he treated them as equals instead of recipients of his beneficence.

 

[Makarov]

When did he not treat them as equals? Not in the show or the prequel book, he gave them the utmost respect and crossed the lines to help them.

 

[Jayson1]

So, because of past performance we are to give him a break for not doing what he said he would?

Yes. If anyone deserves a break from making a promise you thought you could make but then couldn't it is someone like Picard. It's not the greatest thing in the world but it's a normal human reaction to failure and depression. Then years later he feels the need to make amends and people are still shitting on him for not "getting over it" on their timetable when they themselves apparently haven't been doing squat themselves to try and fix things in all those years.

Starfleet had years to try and do something even after Picard quit. Raffi like I said could have searched out another captain. Riker and Troi were looking after their kids but in theory RIker could have carried out the Rescue mission instead. Seven was sort of doing something but that involves killing people so that's not exactly the best thing to do. Then you of course got a whole slew of people we aren't even familiar with. Is Picard the only person capable of carrying out this rescue? I don't think that is realistic.


Jason

 

[fireproof78]

Yes. If anyone deserves a break from making a promise you thought you could make but then couldn't it is someone like Picard. It's not the greatest thing in the world but it's a normal human reaction to failure and depression. Then years later he feels the need to make amends and people are still shitting on him for not "getting over it" on their timetable when they themselves apparently haven't been doing squat themselves to try and fix things in all those years.

I'm not saying that he should "get over it" or struggle with failure and depression. Far from it, in point of fact. I find it the most realistic human reaction in Trek and appreciate the portrayal. But, with due respect, I don't think that absolves him of responsibility. Nor, does it absolve Starfleet either. The fact that Picard feels the need to make it right shows he feels that need too.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Had Picard given that apology 15 years before, he'd have likely gotten a better response from the Romulans. Heck, he might have been able to start gathering support from the Federation by rallying relief from being in the mess with the folks he promised to save. He was too busy wallowing in the luxury of guilt.

 

[Makarov]

Picard - "Sorry I took it to my manager and tried everything including quitting and they wouldn't budge. Looks like you guys might have to figure something out."

Romulan - "Damn you Picard! Where are the ships you promised?! Another federation deception! Raahh!"

Picard - "I don't know what to tell you man. Try calling the help desk 1-800-starfleet"

 

[Nightdiamond]

The article mentioned something about Picard wearing a colonist style outfit when he visited a Romulan refugee settlement. It's not the first time I've seen a comment about that. Was that intentional or just a misinterpretation by some people?

Its hard to tell if the scene was subtly depicting Picard as being earnest but patronizing towards the Romulans, as in basking in the heroics of saving the Romulan people.

Now, Stewart is a producer on the show, and is on record for saying he didn't want to go anywhere near TNG if he did Picard, but instead take it in a different direction if he got involved.

So in Picard, Stewart himself describes the setting and the Federation as "different". It doesn't exist as we knew it anymore.

It's isolationist, cynical and wounded, and most of the characters in it have a lot of issues and conflict, to the point that you might be able to tell them apart from a 21st century human. The same stuff doesn't seem to apply anymore.


So now I'm wondering if that colonizer style outfit was a deliberate choice by Stewart. Was he hinting that the Federation had changed or was colonist in it's thinking without realizing it?

Or that it was on a dangerous path to xenophobia.

If so, then he was hinting that the setting in Picard is dystopian. And that he wanted it to be that way.

It doesn't change the prosperity or material progress of the Federation.
Humans are well fed and don't need anything, but they have a lot of other problems.

 

[Jayson1]

Had Picard given that apology 15 years before, he'd have likely gotten a better response from the Romulans. Heck, he might have been able to start gathering support from the Federation by rallying relief from being in the mess with the folks he promised to save. He was too busy wallowing in the luxury of guilt.

That's because he was broken by his failure. If he did all of those things he would not be a broken person. Let's not forget Data's death was also part of his pain. Being broken doesn't mean going off and pouting like a child. It means you are not who you once were and will be that way forever unless you find away to heal from it or get some new lease on life which he did of course.

Jason

 

[rahullak]

The Federation is a humanitarian armada.

Discuss.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's what all the colonizers say.

 

[Nyotarules]

That's what all the colonizers say.

I believe the Cardassians said something similar to the Bajorans...We are here to help...(you strip your planet of its resources)

 

[Soong-type Android]

Had Picard given that apology 15 years before, he'd have likely gotten a better response from the Romulans. Heck, he might have been able to start gathering support from the Federation by rallying relief from being in the mess with the folks he promised to save. He was too busy wallowing in the luxury of guilt.

Why didn't the Romulan Star Empire save the Romulan people? Why was it left to Picard? One of the problems with this show is depicting the Romulan Star Empire - which is every bit as powerful as the Federation if not more - suddenly collapsing because of the destruction of Romulus. Would the Federation collapse if its capital world Earth was destroyed and expect the Romulans and Klingons to relocate its population and then be bitter and salty because they failed to help?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Why didn't the Romulan Star Empire save the Romulan people?

Their sun blew up.

Why was it left to Picard?

The show is about Picard. Big moral gestures are kind of his thing and it didn't work this time.

One of the problems with this show is depicting the Romulan Star Empire - which is every bit as powerful as the Federation if not more -

Their military, maybe, that doesn't mean they can evacuate an entire planet.

suddenly collapsing because of the destruction of Romulus.

It did, they kept the bulk of their folks on Romulas. Paranoid types keeping their people under thumb.

Would the Federation collapse if its capital world Earth was destroyed and expect the Romulans and Klingons to relocate its population and then be bitter and salty because they failed to help?

Maybe, Trek keeps making the humans out as the glue keeping the Federation together.

 

[Jayson1]

The Federation isn't colonizers. The Federation is actually a good thing. Like the United Nations done right. The Prime Directive exists just for this reason. Something to keep themselves from exploiting other worlds that aren't their technological equals. They haven't been perfect but it's a stretch to say they haven't been a force for good during their existence.


Jason

 

[fireproof78]

Picard - "Sorry I took it to my manager and tried everything including quitting and they wouldn't budge. Looks like you guys might have to figure something out."

Romulan - "Damn you Picard! Where are the ships you promised?! Another federation deception! Raahh!"

Picard - "I don't know what to tell you man. Try calling the help desk 1-800-starfleet"

Cool. Must have missed that scene.

 

[Pauln6]

Their sun blew up.


The show is about Picard. Big moral gestures are kind of his thing and it didn't work this time.


Their military, maybe, that doesn't mean they can evacuate an entire planet.


It did, they kept the bulk of their folks on Romulas. Paranoid types keeping their people under thumb.


Maybe, Trek keeps making the humans out as the glue keeping the Federation together.

Star Trek has consistently failed to show both the Romulan and Klingon empires as true empires. They were often shown as antagonistic monocultures on a handful of planets with no subject races or alien allies. I applaud the attempts to diversify them in TNG, DS9, Discovery, and Picard but the notion that the Federation had to bail out both the Klingons and the Romulans is a bit repetitive. I would have preferred if some other non Federation races had also been involved.

 

[Jayson1]

Star Trek seems to have very few positive Superpowers that aren't abusive other than the Federation. Every Superpower we have seen has always been at one point in time a enemy of the Federation. Ironically the one exception is kind of the Ferengi who might have started out that way but was dropped when they sucked at being good baddies. They seem to have lots of economic power in the AQ. In theory if someone could have forked over the latinum you could have gotten a fleet of Ferengi crews to rescue the Romulans. It's possible the Bolians and Trill have some power as well. Alleys of the Federation but not member worlds. Kind of wonder what the Denobulums and Xindi are doing during Picard's time. Did they eventually join the Federation or do they still do their own thing.

Jason

 

[Makarov]

There's some great stuff about this in the novel Last Best Hope. The romulan govenment denied science showing how bad the supernova was going to be so there was a lot of delay in getting a rescue going. They wouldn't even let their own scientists get the data.

Then the romulan govenment resists all federation assistance and basically Picard fights both stubborn federation officials and the romulan government to be permitted to save those people. The federation had tons of restrictions on where to place them and Picard just takes action.

I know it's not canon but something to think about at least. Their empire wasn't capable of saving itself and only cared about saving the top class people where Picard wanted to save everyone.

 

[Jayson1]

Considering the fleet we saw Oh have I got to wonder why the Romulans didn't just rescue themselves. Picard really does toss in some weird idea's that they can't rescue themselves but then Oh can muster this giant fleet to fight the Synth while also spending I guess decades undercover in order to rise to Admiral in Starfleet.


Jason

 

[Jeyl]

Considering the fleet we saw Oh have I got to wonder why the Romulans didn't just rescue themselves. Picard really does toss in some weird idea's that they can't rescue themselves but then Oh can muster this giant fleet to fight the Synth while also spending I guess decades undercover in order to rise to Admiral in Starfleet.

Kind of makes Nero even more moronic of a character, doesn't it? Calling himself the 'Last of the Romulan Empire'. Pfft. But why stop there when we can make the Romulans within this one show make themselves just as moronic?

Like misguided international aid groups of late 20th-century Earth, Picard and the Federation were guilty of having “no understanding of [the] ingenuity, resolve, and self-sufficiency,” of the people they were trying to save, says former senator, Tenqem Adrev. And then they forgot about them completely.

It seems as though the writer of this piece and the writers of Picard don't understand what kind of a conflict they want the Federation to have with the Romulans.

1. Romulans hate Starfleet for not understanding their ability as a race to prosper on their own.
2. Romulans hate Starfleet for abandoning them on a planet after facing a disaster of their own.
​

These are two arguments that cannot co-exist if we're supposed to take the Romulans' plight seriously. If the Romulans as a species have such high self-sufficiency, ingenuity and resolve, why would being abandoned even be an issue? This comes off less as a plight of a troubled society and more of a whiny bureaucrat who only cares about the bad side of everything. And it gets worse when it's revealed that it was the Romulans themselves who were responsible for Starfleet not aiding in the evacuation Romulus. Not only does your species suck at self-preservation, you were the reason why you were abandoned in the first place!

But for some reason, the show runners want us to believe that Picard is the one who's in the wrong here.