Spoilers Picard 1x1, "Remembrance"

[Longinus]

It's an HR Giger inspired horror scene. You consider HR Giger fucked up?

Yes, but in a good way.

IIRC there is exactly one instance of nude female breasts in Star Trek, and they're in a rape scene. That is the fucked up part in the bad way. And of course in the usual Discovery manner they dropped the ball and did not explore the trauma involved properly.

 

[Longinus]

You don't seem to want to be. I have discovered lots of nuance in all sorts of art when I changed my perspective and learned something new about it. But I understand my attitudes about art may not be common ones.

No, bad taste is pretty common.

 

[DaveyNY]

Jeez; I didn't even remember there even were any bare breasts until I read the last couple pages; actually, I still don't remember it, but I'll assume it happened.

Somebody is taking this way too seriously.

Same here.
I didn't even notice them till I read about it here and that was after two viewings.

 

[DaveyNY]

I give it 100 pages before the "Maps & Symbols" thread veers off topic temporarily and 150 before it veers off permanently.

Hopefully, Thursday's will get here sooner in the future.

 

[The Old Mixer]

An apology to AgentCoop, no matter how right or wrong we may believe ourselves or others to be there is no reason for name calling. I called AgentCoop a liar and for that I am sincerely sorry. I should not have said it as I do not believe it to be true. I let an unfortunate day get the better of me. Be back on Saturday.

Fair enough. Apology accepted. Silly how we both got heated over something so insignificant. I apologize for my part as well.

I'm happy that you two got to this place on your own, because going through the previous few pages, I was ready to step in.

For everyone: There's a lot of sniping going on, not limited to the two posters above. Let's cool down and remember to make it about the post, not the poster. I don't want to have to apply any thread bans or hand out warnings.

On the subject of where this thread has been veering in general...while a certain amount of comparison between Picard and Discovery can be expected, given that they're contemporaneous productions in the same franchise, if it's going to become all about Discovery for pages and pages, then take it to the Discovery forum where it belongs.

 

[fireproof78]

It is not, and I have zero problem with nudity in general; bring on the enlightened Terran naturists and their love instructors! But nudity is rarely done in Trek, and bringing it in a rape scene is problematic. And they specifically had to build a naked Klingon female latex suit for that one scene. Think about it! It was so important to get those tits in that rape scene that they spent time and money for that. It's fucked up.

I see no problem with it. The efficacy of the scene will vary, but I fail to see the problem much less the childishness of the use.

 

[Alan Roi]

No, bad taste is pretty common.

I would say that Picard so far has explored similar themes as the film Mr. Holmes (the film that looked at Sherlock Holmes in his advanced old age), but not quite so well so far especially where it comes to nuance.

 

[DaveyNY]

I would say that Picard so far has explored similar themes as the film Mr. Holmes (the film that looked at Sherlock Holmes in his advanced old age), but not quite so well so far especially where it comes to nuance, would that be another sign of my supposed "bad taste"?

If you really feel the need to ask, then perhaps you might want to take a gander at The Old Mixer's post above yours before continuing.

 

[Longinus]

I would say that Picard so far has explored similar themes as the film Mr. Holmes (the film that looked at Sherlock Holmes in his advanced old age), but not quite so well so far especially where it comes to nuance.

I know the film you're referring to, but unfortunately I haven't seen it, so I really cannot comment.

 

[Alan Roi]

If you really feel the need to ask, then perhaps you might want to take a gander at The Old Mixer's post above yours before continuing.

Which is why I altered my post.

 

[Alan Roi]

I know the film you're referring to, but unfortunately I haven't seen it, so I really cannot comment.

I would highly recommend it to everyone who hasn't seen it, especially in light of what Picard is offering on its subject.

 

[DaveyNY]

Take heart everybody!

It's almost Thursday!

 

[fireproof78]

Whoops. Missed the post. Moving on.

 

[Longinus]

I would highly recommend it, especially in light of what Picard is offering on its subject.

Yeah, It seems like an interesting film and I really should see it. I love both Holmes and Sir Ian.

 

[cooleddie74]

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[Vger23]

I have a question...Is "Remembrance" the first time Picard has spoken French onscreen? I don't remember him ever doing it in TNG or any of the movies.

He speaks a few lines of French to Minuette in "11001001" and says a French curse in "The Last Outpost."

 

[AlanC9]

I see no problem with it. The efficacy of the scene will vary, but I fail to see the problem much less the childishness of the use.

It's always an issue because premium cable and streaming don't have any actual standards. (OK, there's a joke that HBO shows are required to show a certain amount of boobies, but that isn't really a rule.)

I'd find it a bit jarring if Picard went in for GoT-style sexposition, myself, but I don't think there's much danger of that.

 

[fireproof78]

It's always an issue because premium cable and streaming don't have any actual standards. (OK, there's a joke that HBO shows are required to show a certain amount of boobies, but that isn't really a rule.)

I'd find it a bit jarring if Picard went in for GoT-style sexposition, myself, but I don't think there's much danger of that.

Not seeing the issue with either DSC or hypothetical Picard nudity. There is no indication of GoT type programming.

It sounds like making a big deal out of nothing.

 

[Crewman6]

They were a regime of human-supremacists who subjugated, killed and ate other sapient species. So yeah, 'cannibal space nazis' is pretty accurate.

Who knows what the intent was! It was a terrible creative decision regardless.

Yes. And for that to work you need to have coherent theme and decent grasp of psychology. It seemed like they were going for pretty interesting exploration of the dark places 'ends justify means' and 'hard men making hard choices' leads to with Lorca... but then it turns out that instead of a psychologically scarred war veteran he was a cartoon villain from mirror universe. And that's the point, that is how Discovery sucked at dealing with the dark themes, it made a joke out of them.

*shrug* I think 'puerile' was perfectly fair. Edgy cannibal space nazis are the sort of villains twelve-year-olds find cool.

Discovery Season 1 felt like they were just making shit up as they went along. The MU stuff was absolutely dire.

 

[eschaton]

Discovery Season 1 felt like they were just making shit up as they went along. The MU stuff was absolutely dire.

To be fair, going to the MU was one of those things which we absolutely, positively, know was the intent of Bryan Fuller all along.

Of course, we know that Lorca was not intended to be from the MU. I don't have a clue about the MU Georgiou stuff, but I'm presuming they invented all of that after the fact as well, because it seems like they added it because they fell in love with Michelle Yeoh and wanted an excuse to keep her on after killing her.