And here I thought it was because of acceleration.
PIC S3 Ships & Tech
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Perhaps the late-24th century impulse systems only do well with forward acceleration if the writers treat those exhausts as the thrust producers for impulse. However the TOS Enterprise and even the TMP Enterprise and Reliant have demonstrated the ability to maneuver forwards, backwards and vertically at impulse (and warp) so it would've been nice to see that ability return.
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But how fast were the backwards & vertical movement compared to forward acceleration?
Usually you would optimize your drive design for the 99% usage scenario.
Guess what 99% of most StarShips do, go forward.
1% of their life would be for going any other direction other than forward.
So they probably didn't give much priority to designing their STL systems to perform well in those directions.
It's like setting your car in reverse gear, yes you can move backwards; but it isn't going to be nearly as good/efficient/fast as going forward, but you can do it.
In TOS they had to apply reverse thrust to decelerate so their drives were used in reverse at least 50% of the time. Specific use of reverse movement was in at least 10 episodes (12% of TOS).
"Balance of Terror" showed the Enterprise using forward, reverse and lateral acceleration to attack, escape and reposition herself in combat. If reverse and lateral were not fast I would doubt they would be used in combat. In "The Wrath of Khan" the Reliant (flying backwards) intercepts the Enterprise. In "The Paradise Syndrome" the Enterprise flies backwards at impulse the entire 2 month trip back to the planet to rescue Kirk.
Trek maneuvering tends to be 2D.
Why I like in All Good Things, the D Dreadnought coming from bellow blasting the klingons was so cool.
IIRC, the producers specifically lifted a nearly identical scene from SW:ANH, when the Millennium Falcon swooped down out of Yavin's sun to knock out Vader's pursuing TIE fighters during Luke's run on the trench. Full disclosure: Despite the etymology of the sequence, It was no less compelling, visually.
The Klingons coming in from above is the narrative equivalent of reinforcements diving into a WWII fighter furball - we can relate to it easily enough. The escape of the Pasteur had the Klingon’s follow them (down), altering but maintaining the plane of engagement; that’s something we don’t see often at all (or ever in Trek, after that..? ).
Mark
Mark
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There was some up-and-down motion in several of the DS9 Dominion War battles but, yeah, the majority of the engagements were generally on a single plane of two-dimensional movement.
Not sure if this counts but in "The Doomsday Machine" the Enterprise tries to stay above the Doomsday Machine when it closed in to attack. If you follow in the Constellation's phaser beam also comes from above the Doomsday Machine at a further distance. The Enterprise and Constellation still keep more or less the same horizon though.
My notes for 302:
- The Titan has some 500 crew aboard. It is arguable that the ship is around Voyager-sized in displacement, so is this a strange count?
- The Titan's bridge has gained not only side consoles for the CO's guest seats, but inward-facing consoles along the flanking walls too. They're smaller and lower than the freestanding consoles along the rear and front walls, and give Seven a convenient place to deliver exposition that isn't right next to a Captain that hates her.
- It's a little weird because the Stargazer had holographic displays built into the railing that Agnes could call up with a hand wave. Seven's smaller station is more akin to the forward flanking stations on the Enterprise-E bridge, and I'm guessing the railing still has this holographic capacity.
- The smaller station also shows up in the brig later on, while the taller one with the glass screen shows up in the transporter room and sickbay. While we're at it, the bridge bucket seats are also on the shuttle and travel pod from last week.
- Regardless, all these additional stations are ironic considering the Titan seems to have fewer bridge crew than the Stargazer. The earlier ship had NDs everywhere, including on both sides of the forward freestanding consoles. The Titan seems to have calmed things down a bit.
- And speaking of calming, the Titan bridge has no forward window, staying only with the classic viewer (per Seven's dialogue to switch the thing on), matching the exterior model's lack of a big window up top. The model still has aft windows to match the conference room though. The physical set's viewer matches the Stargazer's actual window though, for whatever that's worth. Between the Titan and all the window-less STO ships, there is a big of a retro-return in the offing here when it comes to forward viewscreens.
- Someone has conveniently removed all the chairs from said conference room that were there mere hours earlier when Seven confronted Picard and Riker, just in time for the confrontation between Seven and Shaw. They're right back where they belong in the following scene though, as someone leaves the door open to the bridge when they pop in to rescue the Eleos.
- I love the subtle differences in the LCARS here. The Titan maintains the harsher contrast blue-red contrast of the Stargazer, while the Eleos recalls the warmer yellow-orange tones of TNG. May the Great Bird continue to bless the Okudas and all they do.
- As starships named Titan continue their penchant for warping in at the exact right time to a ship in distress, the tractor beam is broken. Strangely, you can see the green glow disperse from around the Eleos instead of vanishing altogether as it would if you were to block a laser or infrared light beam. Not that this sort of maneuver has really ever happened in Trek before.
- And while it's not new for ships of this era to leap into and out of warp with a toy laser gun "pew", often in formation, the Titan narrows the space they can come out of warp to a scale of hundreds of meters between the Eleos and the Shrike.
- This is the first dedicated transporter room we've seen in live action in a while, and it's small compared to those seen on the Cerritos or Protostar. Just outside the transporter room, in the corridor are two more of those smaller consoles, blocking a good half of the passage during a busy alert scene. Questionable ergonomics there.
- Someone, probably not Shaw (in dialogue anyway), arbitrarily decides to beam Beverly to sickbay. They DID show a graphic prior to it showing her lifesigns as critical, so perhaps the transporter chief made the call. The Vulcan officer later reports this to Shaw and Seven (and there's a nice graphic on the big screen including a medical caduceus to boot).
- Preproduction drawings of the Shrike bridge show that it was built out of the lower deck of La Sirena!
- It's been noticed that the Shirke is pretty smoky at times. Sure, it COULD be from Vadic smoking, but some cultures use incense, so...
- The Shrike mounts isolytic warheads. Without additional dialogue it leaves it to us nerds to recall how illegal they are, per "Insurrection".
- The brig is a triangular set with two cells, that echoes the one on the Shenzhou (which was later refit into Captain Lorca's lab on Discovery), with a single guard manning a station there. IT seems to be a redress of a corridor junction which also leads to the transporter room.
- No one pointed out that a simple DNA test could have confirmed Jack's origins, but us nerds would ALSO point out that the LAST time a son of Picard's unexpectedly showed up, there were ways of faking it.
- One of Sneed's goons may be Vulcan, and his bio on La Sirena shows one of his known associates to be one Krinn of Vulcan. We don't REALLY know much of Vulcan gangsters, but given how altruistic Vulcans tend to be, it'd be fun to see one or more who sees the logic in crime (without being a Maquis as on DS9).
- Slug-O-Cola is written in English on Sneed's cola / head cooler (and it looks like the bottle too). I guess they're exporting to the Federation now?
- Sneed doesn't want to risk his "goddamn reputation" selling out the big fish. I did a quick check on Ferengi deities and the only one really named was the "Blessed Exchequer", so I guess there IS room for a monotheistic entity in their society?
- The Titan's torpedo launchers are obscured by the lower decks of the saucer - but we do see at the end of the episode that her torpedoes track down and away from the ship, then nose upward to strike the Shrike. I guess that despite appearances they DO account for such things when there seems to be very little clearance for torpedo launchers to fire directly ahead.
Mark
- The Titan has some 500 crew aboard. It is arguable that the ship is around Voyager-sized in displacement, so is this a strange count?
- The Titan's bridge has gained not only side consoles for the CO's guest seats, but inward-facing consoles along the flanking walls too. They're smaller and lower than the freestanding consoles along the rear and front walls, and give Seven a convenient place to deliver exposition that isn't right next to a Captain that hates her.
- It's a little weird because the Stargazer had holographic displays built into the railing that Agnes could call up with a hand wave. Seven's smaller station is more akin to the forward flanking stations on the Enterprise-E bridge, and I'm guessing the railing still has this holographic capacity.
- The smaller station also shows up in the brig later on, while the taller one with the glass screen shows up in the transporter room and sickbay. While we're at it, the bridge bucket seats are also on the shuttle and travel pod from last week.
- Regardless, all these additional stations are ironic considering the Titan seems to have fewer bridge crew than the Stargazer. The earlier ship had NDs everywhere, including on both sides of the forward freestanding consoles. The Titan seems to have calmed things down a bit.
- And speaking of calming, the Titan bridge has no forward window, staying only with the classic viewer (per Seven's dialogue to switch the thing on), matching the exterior model's lack of a big window up top. The model still has aft windows to match the conference room though. The physical set's viewer matches the Stargazer's actual window though, for whatever that's worth. Between the Titan and all the window-less STO ships, there is a big of a retro-return in the offing here when it comes to forward viewscreens.
- Someone has conveniently removed all the chairs from said conference room that were there mere hours earlier when Seven confronted Picard and Riker, just in time for the confrontation between Seven and Shaw. They're right back where they belong in the following scene though, as someone leaves the door open to the bridge when they pop in to rescue the Eleos.
- I love the subtle differences in the LCARS here. The Titan maintains the harsher contrast blue-red contrast of the Stargazer, while the Eleos recalls the warmer yellow-orange tones of TNG. May the Great Bird continue to bless the Okudas and all they do.
- As starships named Titan continue their penchant for warping in at the exact right time to a ship in distress, the tractor beam is broken. Strangely, you can see the green glow disperse from around the Eleos instead of vanishing altogether as it would if you were to block a laser or infrared light beam. Not that this sort of maneuver has really ever happened in Trek before.
- And while it's not new for ships of this era to leap into and out of warp with a toy laser gun "pew", often in formation, the Titan narrows the space they can come out of warp to a scale of hundreds of meters between the Eleos and the Shrike.
- This is the first dedicated transporter room we've seen in live action in a while, and it's small compared to those seen on the Cerritos or Protostar. Just outside the transporter room, in the corridor are two more of those smaller consoles, blocking a good half of the passage during a busy alert scene. Questionable ergonomics there.
- Someone, probably not Shaw (in dialogue anyway), arbitrarily decides to beam Beverly to sickbay. They DID show a graphic prior to it showing her lifesigns as critical, so perhaps the transporter chief made the call. The Vulcan officer later reports this to Shaw and Seven (and there's a nice graphic on the big screen including a medical caduceus to boot).
- Preproduction drawings of the Shrike bridge show that it was built out of the lower deck of La Sirena!
- It's been noticed that the Shirke is pretty smoky at times. Sure, it COULD be from Vadic smoking, but some cultures use incense, so...
- The Shrike mounts isolytic warheads. Without additional dialogue it leaves it to us nerds to recall how illegal they are, per "Insurrection".
- The brig is a triangular set with two cells, that echoes the one on the Shenzhou (which was later refit into Captain Lorca's lab on Discovery), with a single guard manning a station there. IT seems to be a redress of a corridor junction which also leads to the transporter room.
- No one pointed out that a simple DNA test could have confirmed Jack's origins, but us nerds would ALSO point out that the LAST time a son of Picard's unexpectedly showed up, there were ways of faking it.
- One of Sneed's goons may be Vulcan, and his bio on La Sirena shows one of his known associates to be one Krinn of Vulcan. We don't REALLY know much of Vulcan gangsters, but given how altruistic Vulcans tend to be, it'd be fun to see one or more who sees the logic in crime (without being a Maquis as on DS9).
- Slug-O-Cola is written in English on Sneed's cola / head cooler (and it looks like the bottle too). I guess they're exporting to the Federation now?
- Sneed doesn't want to risk his "goddamn reputation" selling out the big fish. I did a quick check on Ferengi deities and the only one really named was the "Blessed Exchequer", so I guess there IS room for a monotheistic entity in their society?
- The Titan's torpedo launchers are obscured by the lower decks of the saucer - but we do see at the end of the episode that her torpedoes track down and away from the ship, then nose upward to strike the Shrike. I guess that despite appearances they DO account for such things when there seems to be very little clearance for torpedo launchers to fire directly ahead.
Mark
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I'd argue their accuracy is down to the "1-digit" amount of meters for warping out.
Given how precisely Ensign LaForge placed the Titan between the Eleos and the Shrike, it's VERY precise.
Where do you get "Voyager sized" for the Titan? Looks more like Enterprise-C volume to me.
That said, Voyager was always particularly sparsely populated given her volume. We know the Titan has some bunks, whereas everyone on Voyager seemed to have their own room. A crew of 500 seems pretty credible for a ship of that size.
That said, Voyager was always particularly sparsely populated given her volume. We know the Titan has some bunks, whereas everyone on Voyager seemed to have their own room. A crew of 500 seems pretty credible for a ship of that size.
According to Dave Blass the Titan-A is 560m long. So yes, out of all the Enterprises so far it's closest in size to the Enterprise-C. It's also about the same size as the Stargazer NCC-82893.
Voyager has a volume of ~626,000m³ – some three times more than the TOS Enterprise (~212,000m³). Three times the size with a third the crew – it must have been very roomy!
I'd call that an apparent budgetary reality of setting an entire season (presumably) on a ship and seeing the bridge every episode rather than for a fraction of one episode. For how little time we spent on the Stargazer, they could afford to splurge a bit.
The same thing happened with the Enterprise-D. The producers liked the side consoles added to the middle of the bridge in "Yesterday's Enterprise," but they didn't like that they'd need to pay for another two-to-four NDs to operate them in every episode, so they went away until GEN. I definitely see the appeal; the whole idea of the bridge in the round is, functionally, that the Captain can see everything everyone is doing from their chair, which is defeated by sticking Picard into a nook where he can only see the viewscreen. Having most of the stations clustered in the back also makes it hard to stage discussions, you couldn't have anything like this shot on the -D, but if you move, say, Science and Engineering over to the mid-stations, it becomes a lot easier to consult with them in a crisis instead of only when things are relatively calm.
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Hum, for a Blass-ified length of 560m I'm more than happy to accept an Ambassador-esque volume and crew count (fandom in the 90s pegged an Ambassador at 700-750, IIRC). Thing is, and I know there's bound to be a spirited debate about it, but the Titan's retro saucer is a bit TOO retro for its own good - makes me think that the saucer was effectively a Constitution (II) saucer, which makes the Titan feel roughly the same length as a Constitution. Going by the side profile and counting windows gives a count of 22-24 decks, again around what a TOS/TMP Connie should be; so following that logic I concluded that its size is roughly commensurate with such a predecessor and have a TNG-ified smaller crew count. But hey, everyone's MMV.
And of course, ALL Trek starships can be ridiculously sparsely crewed. Recalling this video:
Even on the cavernously-huge Voyager, the Lower Deckers have roomies, to say nothing of the underling quarters seen on ships like the Excelsior, Cerritos, etc. In general I think it's safe to assume that Starfleet purposefully crams a chunk of the crew together for social purposes over giving everyone their own spacious quarters.
Mark
And of course, ALL Trek starships can be ridiculously sparsely crewed. Recalling this video:
Even on the cavernously-huge Voyager, the Lower Deckers have roomies, to say nothing of the underling quarters seen on ships like the Excelsior, Cerritos, etc. In general I think it's safe to assume that Starfleet purposefully crams a chunk of the crew together for social purposes over giving everyone their own spacious quarters.
Mark
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Yeah, 560m probably is about right when comparing the Enterprise-A and Titan resized by their round docking ports.
EDIT: the round docking port size for the Titan use in this comparison is based on the inner dark circle as at the time it looked like the hull colored ring between the inner circle and the red markings was the hull. After spotting a better angle on the docking port where I could see the inset better I revised the comparison in a later post where the Titan is similar in size to the TMP Enterprise.
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Isn't this just the 2009 debate all over again? Very similar shapes don't necessarily mean they are the same size.
The converse is also true of the BoBW graveyard ships that were kitbashed from Galaxy parts, but clearly intended to be smaller ships.
Yeah, 560m probably is about right when comparing the Enterprise-A and Titan resized by their round docking ports.
Nice comparison! Yes that feels about right.
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