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Phase II - Your Opinions?

How do you think Phase II would have been, had it been made?

  • Good overall

    Votes: 45 71.4%
  • Bad overall

    Votes: 12 19.0%
  • Meh, neither

    Votes: 6 9.5%

  • Total voters
    63
I understand what you say about all the hours of Klingon Trek...but I would still stick to the original PII storyline and script for your version. The original script still fits in with what you guys have been doing...as a continuation of the original 5 year mission.
 
I understand what you say about all the hours of Klingon Trek...but I would still stick to the original PII storyline and script for your version. The original script still fits in with what you guys have been doing...as a continuation of the original 5 year mission.

Well, no--the original script actually doesn't fit perfectly well with what we are doing. For example, we do have Spock still. (The original script didn't have Spock, of course.) We don't have Decker and Ilia, but the original script did. (Ilia uses her empathic powers to probe the Klingons' minds to get important information.) The original script named the Klingon Homeworld something else, not Qo'nos which we now "know" to be the case.

So, from different characters to the dramatic action to some of the minor points of nomenclature to some now-established Klingon historical and cultural points that need to be danced around cleverly a bit, the original script needs a bit of massaging. Nevertheless, like I said before, we are doing our best to keep the original script intact in every way we possibly can; we really do want to tell John Meredyth Lucas' story, not someone else's story--and if we felt we were going too far afield, we'd just call our story something else. But I'm confident that this is still very much John Meredyth Lucas' "Kitumba"--as much as it realistically can be thirty years later and with hundreds and hundreds of hours of Star Trek having already been told. I think we are doing it (and Star Trek fans) justice.

Of course, if our episode ultimately ends up being dissatisfying to you, then I think everyone on our team would encourage you to mount a production of "Kitumba" on your own that adheres even more closely to the script; that way you can actually show us how you would do it properly.
 
kitumba_teaser-poster_mini.jpg


Neat I look forward to this
 
So, Ive been working on a little project for our upcoming June shoot of "Kitumba."

Folks probably know that the symbol that's been associated with the Klingon Empire is a three-pointed thing superimposed on a yellowish circle:

1526683147_ca1f41eceb.jpg


But here's a bit more background on this symbol from an Original Series standpoint:

The insignia appears in three TOS episodes: "Elaan of Troyius," "The Enterprise Incident," and "Day of the Dove." In these episodes, it's just barely visible on the underside of the Klingon (or "Romulan") ship model in two different views:

1526920359_1ef1e5ca3e.jpg


1527551454_a2c5d6d72b.jpg


You can also see it (just barely--if you have a very good eye) on Matt Jefferies' diagram of the ship as it appears on the little tri-screen viewer in the briefing room:

1526683441_57b6f0b790.jpg


It should be noted that both the studio filming model and the large original prototype of the AMT model kit have the same insignia:

1526682975_f643c59234.jpg


1527550898_958131629c.jpg


But clearly (and probably most importantly), the best look at the Klingon insignia is the view from "Elaan of Troyius:"

1526773961_27659d41b0.jpg


You can see from this shot that the yellow circle is actually a pale yellow, the red wedge is just, well, red, and the green wedge is a light mint green. The third wedge is actually black, not blue as people sometimes think. Notice also that the tallest point points off to the right.

Interestingly, since the Klingon Battlecruiser model was used as a new Romulan ship in "The Enterprise Incident," and since you could just barely make out the Klingon insignia on what was supposed to be a Romulan ship, the TOS production folks actually went to the trouble of developing a symbol for the Romulans that looked somewhat like the Klingon insignia and which plausibly could have been the hard-to-see insignia visible on the underside of the ship model:

1527551332_8b5b6a0041.jpg


(Notice that it has that same "red, green, and black three prongs on a yellow background" look. But notice that instead of the triangular wedge-shaped prongs, the Romulan insignia has little propeller-shaped prongs that are actually the shape of the Romulan doorways throughout the ship interiors.)

At any rate, the animated episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles" had a pretty faithful re-creation of a Klingon ship, and the Klingon insignia on the ship was in its "proper" left-to-right orientation:

1527550836_da9154807c.jpg


However, when the interior of the Klingon ship was shown in this same animated episode, the Klingon insignia was placed in a new up-and-down orientation--and the colors were brighter, closer to primary colors, with blue introduced instead of black:

1527551142_6e75a00eb6.jpg


(Apparently, the artistist/producers hadn't seen "Elaan of Troyius" recently.)

So, the corruption of the Klingon insignia (from a muted, left-to-right insignia shown in TOS to a more brightly colored, up-and-down insignia) all began with the animated episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles." The up-and-down "incorrect" orientation stuck--and the rest is now Star Trek history.

But here's a clean copy of the true Klingon insignia from TOS before it got corrupted in "More Tribbles, More Troubles:"

1532499182_c078153de1.jpg


At any rate, since we'll be seeing a bunch of Klingon stuff in "Kitumba," I needed to create some Klingon signs. But being proudly Old School, I went back to the original Matt Jefferies colors for the symbol. So rather than having symbols made that look like the "conventional wisdom" Klingon symbol (well, okay I do have one):

3474620838_9fdbeb2b87.jpg


...I had some made that look like this:

3473812863_61fd632c79.jpg


Here it is with a nearby lightswitch to get some scale:

3473812835_45c18a4bd9.jpg


And another shot to get some scale:

3474620870_15b4df800c.jpg


Lastly, you can see that I got a bunch of these:

3474620936_d7c1101659.jpg


Matt Jefferies was a color genius and getting our Trek to look just right depends a lot on getting the colors just right. Even though the symbol is probably visible for no more than about thirty seconds total time over the course of the entire series, it just looks so much more classic Trek when you get the subtle, muted coloration just right--instead of using garish primary colors.
 
I understand what you say about all the hours of Klingon Trek...but I would still stick to the original PII storyline and script for your version. The original script still fits in with what you guys have been doing...as a continuation of the original 5 year mission.

Well, no--the original script actually doesn't fit perfectly well with what we are doing. For example, we do have Spock still. (The original script didn't have Spock, of course.) We don't have Decker and Ilia, but the original script did. (Ilia uses her empathic powers to probe the Klingons' minds to get important information.) The original script named the Klingon Homeworld something else, not Qo'nos which we now "know" to be the case.

So, from different characters to the dramatic action to some of the minor points of nomenclature to some now-established Klingon historical and cultural points that need to be danced around cleverly a bit, the original script needs a bit of massaging. Nevertheless, like I said before, we are doing our best to keep the original script intact in every way we possibly can; we really do want to tell John Meredyth Lucas' story, not someone else's story--and if we felt we were going too far afield, we'd just call our story something else. But I'm confident that this is still very much John Meredyth Lucas' "Kitumba"--as much as it realistically can be thirty years later and with hundreds and hundreds of hours of Star Trek having already been told. I think we are doing it (and Star Trek fans) justice.

Of course, if our episode ultimately ends up being dissatisfying to you, then I think everyone on our team would encourage you to mount a production of "Kitumba" on your own that adheres even more closely to the script; that way you can actually show us how you would do it properly.


Hold on hoss -- No negative criticism was intended regarding your effort.

In my haste, I forgot about Spock not being there...and Illia and Decker *being there*.

But, I don't do anything piecemeal. Trust me, were I to indulge in a Trek production, it would be accurate and would make all the others look like childs play.

I've been into Trek since I was 5 (maybe earlier). I Know the series backwards and forwards. I would put myself up against any of you in that regard.

But, alas, I am not rich...have a family and hold a real job so I doubt that's (A Quasar Trek Production) going to happen anytime soon.

Plus, I'm much more interested in doing my own non-Trek thing based on original material in some form.
 
Roddenberry stated somewhere, probably around the time of TNG but maybe earlier, that he never liked the sound of "commodore"; said it sounded like some rich guy tooling around on his yacht.

I love the rank of Commodore. I think it sounds awesome. Way better than "Rear Admiral, Lower Half".
 
Maybe some more substantive comments later, but:

Gene Roddenberry? via Memory Alpha said:
Just as Vulcans have a problem with emotions, Ilia has a problem which accompanies her aboard the starship. On 114-Delta V, almost everything in life is sex-oriented; it is a part of every friendship, every social engagement, every profession. It is simply the normal way to relate with others there. Since constant sex is not the pattern of humans and others board this starship, Ilia has totally repressed this emotion drive and social pattern.


Screw
Earth. I'm shaving my head, getting a Brazilian, and going to Delta.

Also, poor Ilia. Where's IDIC when you need it? (Yes, there's an awful pun hiding in there somewhere.)
 
Of course, if our episode ultimately ends up being dissatisfying to you, then I think everyone on our team would encourage you to mount a production of "Kitumba" on your own that adheres even more closely to the script; that way you can actually show us how you would do it properly.
"Do it better then" is a fairly tacky way to reply to a differing opinion.
 
But, alas, I am not rich...have a family and hold a real job so I doubt that's (A Quasar Trek Production) going to happen anytime soon.

Plus, I'm much more interested in doing my own non-Trek thing based on original material in some form.

If it needs some foreground miniatures and/or a Bruce Campbell-level performance from somebody on a viewscreen, gimme a holler. I've been rereading a ton of my old script stuff and watching some of the old super 8 and 16mm bits and pieces and itching to do SOMEthing.
 
That's what I was thinking, DS...

But was more baffling was that no slight towards his version was even intended by my comments...

Bizarre. :lol:
 
But, alas, I am not rich...have a family and hold a real job so I doubt that's (A Quasar Trek Production) going to happen anytime soon.

Plus, I'm much more interested in doing my own non-Trek thing based on original material in some form.

If it needs some foreground miniatures and/or a Bruce Campbell-level performance from somebody on a viewscreen, gimme a holler. I've been rereading a ton of my old script stuff and watching some of the old super 8 and 16mm bits and pieces and itching to do SOMEthing.


I'll keep that in mind, Trev...:)

My thing would have to be CGI though...that's the only way my material could be done and keep the budget down.
 
Of course, if our episode ultimately ends up being dissatisfying to you, then I think everyone on our team would encourage you to mount a production of "Kitumba" on your own that adheres even more closely to the script; that way you can actually show us how you would do it properly.
"Do it better then" is a fairly tacky way to reply to a differing opinion.

Well, I think your one-line Reader's Digest summary of the last paragraph in my post spins its tone into something a bit more harsh than how it actually reads--but certainly your summary spins my paragraph into something a bit more harsh than I intended the paragraph to read. I think my paragraph was a bit more nuanced than your summary reflects. But people can decide that for themselves, of course.

Your summary and characterization of my post also does me a bit of disservice by ignoring the other eighty percent of my post--which I think is actually the more representative chunk of the post--and which I think better represents what I was trying to convey.

I think just as no slight was intended by QuasarVM's post but some people actually (incorrectly evidently) perceived a slight, so too with my post. I guess it's all too easy to do.

Nevertheless, I apologize for and own completely my bizarre tackiness. It wasn't actually my intent and was completely unjustified. I apologize that the final twenty percent of my post overwhelmed the other more important eighty percent.
 
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^As much as I disapprove of a lot of what the NV/P2 team doesas far as writing, directing, and cinematography, I do have to admit that your art department's attention to detail and creativity is steadily improving and incredibly dedicated, even if I disagree with everything else in the series. ;)

Even with my huge reservations, I'm eagerly awating your adaptation of "Kitumba," especially to see what Andy cooks up for you besides the fighter.
 
You know (slightly OT) I was just skimming through my copy of the Phase II book by the Reeves-Stevens and was amused to find a memo from Jon Povill to Gene Roddenberry noting that costume designer Bill Theiss recalled the existence of the rank of Commodore, and together suggested only promoting Kirk to Commodore rather than Admiral, allowing him to command the ship without a convoluted rank reduction.

It's a shame more people didn't listen to Jon Povill...


I always liked the idea of Commodore Kirk- we saw Commodore Wesley in charge of a ship. Plus it would have fit in with Shatners early 80's TV commercials.:lol::cool:
 
^As much as I disapprove of a lot of what the NV/P2 team doesas far as writing, directing, and cinematography, I do have to admit that your art department's attention to detail and creativity is steadily improving and incredibly dedicated, even if I disagree with everything else in the series. ;)

Even with my huge reservations, I'm eagerly awating your adaptation of "Kitumba," especially to see what Andy cooks up for you besides the fighter.

I second that! My hat is -- and has been -- off to the NV/P2 team.

What those guys do is nothing short of amazing.
 
You know (slightly OT) I was just skimming through my copy of the Phase II book by the Reeves-Stevens and was amused to find a memo from Jon Povill to Gene Roddenberry noting that costume designer Bill Theiss recalled the existence of the rank of Commodore, and together suggested only promoting Kirk to Commodore rather than Admiral, allowing him to command the ship without a convoluted rank reduction.

It's a shame more people didn't listen to Jon Povill...


I always liked the idea of Commodore Kirk- we saw Commodore Wesley in charge of a ship. Plus it would have fit in with Shatners early 80's TV commercials.:lol::cool:

That's really funny!
 
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