Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Duane, May 14, 2014.
Which would be edited out of any pirated copies.
I think it's important to remember that the only people perpetuating the "CBS IS WATCHING US!" comes from the Phase II people themselves - I myself have only ever heard or seen it here from James, Patty, and Loken.
I do think it odd that none of the other fan films seem to have to deal with or worry about that kind of attention and that there has yet to be (so far as I've observed anyway) any kind of official word from anyone at CBS or Paramount on the issue.
Patty is the one who talks about this issue a lot where Phase II is concerned I have noticed. Other groups keep these issues more private, as they should be, than posting everything on a public forum such as this. CBS will deal with the groups as they need to on a case by case basis if they feel there is a violation to be addressed.
An edit where the editor didn't actually read the script, but copied the bad last edit, a new facility they can't afford the rent to without a Kickstarter, and a Kickstarter from a group that doesn't exist located someplace they aren't....YAY YOU!!!
Of course, but that's still a clear statement of intent from the makers and puts the onus where it belongs: on the piraters.
Just a thought, but can't you folks that hate each others guts just take it to PM so the rest of us don't have to trawl through all the bile? I'm all for a bit of healthy debate but this is getting tiresome.
THIS. THIS. THIS.
I haven't been here for over a year, and yet the nitpickers are still posting the same lame crap as ever.
I too have a lot of issues with the people up at Phase II, and have heard some pretty damaging gossip about them.... but I have to give them credit for actually getting things done, vs so many other fan film projects that fall by the wayside.
I will donate to the Kickstarter program. Glad to see original Trek still alive (and I'm a hard core DS9 fan to boot). I've donated lcd panels and a printer in the past, so I have a personal interest in seeing them succeed.
If CBS watches them like a hawk, they must like what they see, since they haven't shut them down.
I haven't given up my own dream of doing a spec movie. Might just actually have the time in the near future. Until then, props to all the cast and crew at Phase II!!!
Yes, I speak from personal experience, that as of last November, the head of CBS legal watches Phase II like a hawk. The legal department is constantly on the website and forum watching things. (as of November, of course. No data since then)
They have issued rules and C&Ds to other productions, (as Randy) but I have never heard of any other fanfilim getting the kind of scrutiny that Phase II does.
And, yes, these DVDs and other "perks" are an issue for them. The one I am NOT "personally familiar" with is when the original episode came out on DVD fans were given an opportunity to get it free if they donated to the Challenger Family Fund. CBS IMMEDIATELY made them stop it, saying "the charity is profiting from a CBS license". (seriously!)
When we offered to give people "Star Trek: Phase II" t shirts for donating to help with filming "Bread and Savagery" I got a blistering email from CBS legal demanding we take "Star Trek" and the copyrighted "delta shield" off the t shirts. (at the same time Excalibur and Secret Voyage were offering similiar t shirts. when I brought it up, their basic answer was "THEY are not YOU.") (I'd post the exact quote but it's not really PC)
We did give a "full set of DVDs" for all the episodes as an Indiegogo perk. It involved a lot of chatting with them - and ultimately was allowed due to the limited nature of the campaign and limited number of people who would be getting said DVDs. (at least 95% were crew)
and, as an added note....the DVD cases used to carry the "if you find this for sale, etc"...but I am not sure they do any longer, since they are not available to the public any longer. CBS noticed when they were being sold at conventions and, ultimately, declared that CEC/RFS was responsible for what happened to their product after it got let go on the internet - even if it was a thief profiting from CBS, it was because the show gave them the means to do so. (These people are pretty brassy, too. I've seen James point to his face on the cover and order them to take them off the shelf - only to return an hour later and find them right back where they were. Often with the "get it signed today!" added to the sign.)
I suppose I am guilty as part of this. I apologize. But for the record, I don't "hate" anyone. I simply object to questionable business practices, or vague and misleading wording - it's my attention to detail and achilles heel. Tell me the truth without gloss and I'll back you to Hades and back weather I agree with your actions or not.
Seconded. I was initially glad to see the BBS had a fan productions section, but after running into so many threads that deteriorated into hate-filled shouting matches between rival productions, I've found it to be the worse place to visit than any other forum on the board.
In other news, Phase 2 is doing really well with their crowdfunding, ensuring that at least post-production on their previously stalled episodes should finally get completed in rapid succession...
May I add my vote to that. I would like to be friends or at least have a cordial working relationship with everyone involved in making fan projects. It's in my interest as someone who writes about them to be on be good terms. But darn it, we also all are starting from the same place when it comes to being Trek fans and it really does seem like we ought to be able to at least keep our personal stresses and strains on a personal level. It does not add at all to my enjoyment of these herculean efforts to have various parties publicly exchanging barbs.
I'm on the crew at Phase 2.
We work our behinds off to make the best product we can.
Thanks to all who supported our Kickstarter!
I post because people have asked for the information...and have expressed gratitude for it. As I dealt with them personally for a very long time, I have first hand information - where most people are guessing. Not being connected to a fanfilm at this point I have the knoweldge and the non involved perspective to what is and has gone on.
I DO keep private matters private (and have a few "non disclosures" binding me) - but mentioning they made us take "Star Trek" off a t shirt is not some revealation of a state secret. I'm not about to share emails and other communications from CBS to "prove" they are keeping track etc. My hope was that the information gives people a view into the way they operate, and how it changes on a case by case and film by film basis.
I just thought the more informed people are, the less "well I think..." is going on, which seems to get ridiculous and puts some people into a panic. There are actually several pages of a thread where people were angry with Randy for not sharing details of what CBS asked him to abide by. That's his choice...to keep things private. I personally thought what information could be shared would be useful to other filmmakers....as well as to fans thinking CBS would be swooping down at any minute to shut everyone down because of some trivial mistake.
I know some people I have helped with the information, and have put people in touch with CBS for legal matters they got cleared (and we never thought they would). But I will stop posting answers to people's questions or observations because it is clearly just irritating. Sorry.
Thanks for your help. A few years ago I asked someone on another board if there was anything put out by CBS covering what was and wasn't legal for ST fan movies. At the time, I was told there was nothing. Glad to know that there is.
My biggest concern is if it's legal to pay talent and crew, even though the "enterprise" is non profit. For the Firefly fanfilm they could not pay anyone anything legally.
Yes, you can absolutely pay talent and crew. Many of our productions have professional actors that we are mandated by SAG to pay. Crew can be paid to. Most of the crew in these productions do work for free but some with specialized skill sets can get some monetary compensation.
thanks for the quick response. You guys are doing the spec movie I always wanted to do. Really looking forward to the final result.
I wonder why CBS just don't let fan films turn in a profit and demand 60%, or 100% or whatever of it. None of the fan films are ever going to be a danger to official movies or TV shows, they fill an extremely tiny niche. And the creators of the fan films are going to do the marketing and distribution, so no costs for CBS.
I can't see great long term risks either. The additional hurdle of having to sign a fan film contract with CBS would automatically act as a filter, and they could litter the contract with shutdown and interference clauses, or whatever you call that in your strange language, to prevent them from getting too big.
Not long ago, MGM almost violently killed off an extremely crappy Stargate fan film attempt from Germany/Switzerland. That was like nuking a mosqito. You could say it was damage control to save the image of the brand, though.
But stuff like Renegades or Phase II... can't see them "diluting the brand" for CBS in any way.
Why not let fans make money even if most of it went to CBS? Because doing so opens a whole can of worms in terms of contracts, fees, and accounting. Heck, just the time it takes to draw up the contracts can be expensive. I've sat in on contract negotiations between Amazon and a software company for a SINGLE work for hire software project, and it took months. The amount of money CBS could make from such a deal would likely never amount to their legal or the fees they'd incur to do an audit. Just. Not. Worth. It. (I suppose they could draft a boilerplate take-it-or-leave-it agreement, but, again, the legal costs incurred if a breach occurred still likely wouldn't make it a profitable venture.)
You are mandated to pay SAG actors for most productions, but the Short Film Agreement allows NO payment for certain film categories and deferred payment for others (section 5 here).
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