I haven't seen all of WWW, but from what I have seen, I'd say it was on par with Episode I, if you are a fan of Will Smith. I don't care for him, so I obviously would rather gouge my eyes out with an ice pick than watch the film.
Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.
- Thread starter TheLobes
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I haven't seen all of WWW, but from what I have seen, I'd say it was on par with Episode I, if you are a fan of Will Smith. I don't care for him, so I obviously would rather gouge my eyes out with an ice pick than watch the film.
Ummm. It opened at #1 and stayed there for fifteen weeks.
It opened at around $28m. It had a spike in single-day sales on Valentines Day but, well, so it's popularity took no time to "catch on" it came out of the gate all guns blazing.
Yeah, it had been out for 2 full months before I saw it, and the theater was still packed.
BOMOJO LINK
As you can see it started off strong and stayed there during it's entire run. Obviously deviating during the week and going back up over the weekend, a large dip (on Christmas Eve) but then shooting up again on Christmas Day and continuing on through that weekend. It spikes again on V-Day for obvious reasons and then continues the usual week/weekend standard ups and downs.
It didn't take "a while to get going" it shot off like a rocket and took nearly four months to slow down.
As you can see it started off strong and stayed there during it's entire run. Obviously deviating during the week and going back up over the weekend, a large dip (on Christmas Eve) but then shooting up again on Christmas Day and continuing on through that weekend. It spikes again on V-Day for obvious reasons and then continues the usual week/weekend standard ups and downs.
It didn't take "a while to get going" it shot off like a rocket and took nearly four months to slow down.
If there's a formula for huge worldwide success, do you have any idea why they didn't feel like using it again?
Or maybe there is no formula and lots and lots of people just happened to connect with Titanic despite the fact that you don't like it?
I give him too much credit? Have you ever written anything? Of course he was trying to write a likable or realistic character. The fact that he wasn't entirely successful doesn't mean that he's completely insane and somehow set out to write an irritating and unrelatable character. Again, you seem to hate those movies so much that you want them to fail on every level. I think that kind of hyperbole makes the overall argument weaker.
A movie is not just an illustrated plot, and yes, putting beautiful images on the screen sometimes is the point of a visual art like cinema. If you cut everything but the "unimportant bits" in Andrei Tarkovski's Stalker, you'd end up with a seven or eight-minute film, but it would not be improved in any conceivable way.
Even without the OT, these movies are the most ambitious attempt at a vast space based sci-fi epic ever undertaken. I can't think of anything that even approaches them in terms of story scope, budget and technical execution.
I don't like them much personally, but it's not a dead cert that they would have failed on their own merits by any means. Presented with these films without such a legacy to live up to I can easily see them carving out a piece of history of their own.
^
Yes, they're big budget extravaganzas. Which would mean at the time of release the films would be much talked about. Ten years later, I don't know.
Seeing all of it would be important there, as Wild Wild West is spectacularly ridiculous and incoherent in its ending. It's a terrible, terrible movie to which Phantom Menace cannot hope to hold a candle to, and at the time was a much bigger let down for me (having liked Men in Black).
Oh and Wing Commander was generally worse than Episode I, while one's on the subject.
Yes, they're big budget extravaganzas. Which would mean at the time of release the films would be much talked about. Ten years later, I don't know.
Seeing all of it would be important there, as Wild Wild West is spectacularly ridiculous and incoherent in its ending. It's a terrible, terrible movie to which Phantom Menace cannot hope to hold a candle to, and at the time was a much bigger let down for me (having liked Men in Black).
Oh and Wing Commander was generally worse than Episode I, while one's on the subject.
TremblingBluStar said:
Can I relate to someone who finds that every time he has something good in his life, it gets snatched away?
Yes, I can.
Can I relate to someone in a doomed apprenticeship program who is constantly crapped on by his superiors?
Yes, I can.
Can I relate to a character who starts out as an innocent blond-haired kid and ends up an angry psychopath?
Yes, I can.
Not saying that was a formula. There were several factors that contributed to the success of the film, and they all added up to huge numbers. I'm simply saying that I found the plot cliched - tell me you haven't seen the poor boy gets involved with rich girl, rich girl's family disapproves, both rebel against society plot before.
Either way, we will have to agree to disagree here. This is way off topic, and we will never change each other's mind.
Again, I don't hate the movies.
Have you seen special features for these films. Lucas admitted time and time again that he wrote the scripts more or less at the last minute. I saw one clip where sets were being build, and he remarked "I guess I should start writing the script".
So when I say he didn't want to write realistic characters, I mean to say he didn't care if they were realistic or not. I'm sure he wanted them to be, but he probably realized that the films would make tons of money no matter what he wrote, and so he didn't feel the need to put any effort into the writing. The story was clearly not his priority when creating these films.
I never agree to disagree and I change my mind all the time about all kinds of things, but I'll drop it...Not saying that was a formula. There were several factors that contributed to the success of the film, and they all added up to huge numbers. I'm simply saying that I found the plot cliched - tell me you haven't seen the poor boy gets involved with rich girl, rich girl's family disapproves, both rebel against society plot before.
Either way, we will have to agree to disagree here. This is way off topic, and we will never change each other's mind.
... but first, I must say that every plot can be boiled down to a stock plot. "Emo boy wants to die because daddy didn't love him"? That's Hamlet.
Yes, I see what you mean, and I guess you've got a point. If you listen to the commentaries, though, he talks about the stories and characters quite affectionately, so I can't quite believe that it's just completely perfunctory for him.
I'd love to read Frank Darabont's draft of Episode I, though I don't actually know that it was written.
And I've always wished the Cameron Crowe and David Fincher rumors (for Episodes II and III respectively) had panned out.
Frank Darbonet wrote an early draft of the Indiana Jones script. I'm pretty sure he's never had any involvement with Star Wars.
I have Darabont's draft of Indy IV.
I remember that it was announced around '95 that Darabont would be involved in the writing of Episode I. Some Googling turns up that he left the production in mid-1996. Also, he seems not to have written anything. Alas.
I do still like TPM and never did mind Jar-Jar much. Love the opening and the duel of the fates remains the best lightsaber duel out of all 6 movies easily.
That said, while I understand the reasons Lucas went with Anakin being a kid, because he wanted to show us it wasn't his childhood that made him turn bad, then he went and made him a slave. Avoid that and make him 13-14 and the entire thing, including a young crush in Ep 1. I also thought they should have left Darth Maul alive to be the face of the Prequels like Vader in the original trilogy. And should have had the war start at the end of Ep 1 so part 2 can start off with a battle.
That said, while I understand the reasons Lucas went with Anakin being a kid, because he wanted to show us it wasn't his childhood that made him turn bad, then he went and made him a slave. Avoid that and make him 13-14 and the entire thing, including a young crush in Ep 1. I also thought they should have left Darth Maul alive to be the face of the Prequels like Vader in the original trilogy. And should have had the war start at the end of Ep 1 so part 2 can start off with a battle.
I haven't listened to the commentaries yet, but in interviews he seems to not know much about the characters. I remember him mispronouncing Qui-Gonn in one clip and saying everything in TPM "revolves around Jar Jar". I think if he had a good grasp of his characters we never would have had to see Yoda in a light saber duel.
I guess it is entirely possible Lucas put in heart and soul into the script for TPM, and thought he had drafted a wonderful script. In which case, I have to wonder why he didn't hand writing duties off to others (not counting the "co writer" on Sith) when the movie came out and nearly everybody thought the script was a mess.
The only answer I can come up with is massive ego.
Lucas is usually the first to tell people that he hates directing and writing. He's a visual guy. But remember, he had a big falling out with teh Guild's in the 80's and can't/won't use anyone from the American Guilds.
"The Hollywood unions have been taken over by the same lawyers and accountants who took over the studios," Lucas says angrily. "When the Writers Guild was on strike, I couldn't cross the picket line in my function as a director in order to take care of American Graffiti when the studio was chopping it up. I quit the Director's Guild because the union lawyers were locked in a traditional combat with the studio lawyers. The union doesn't care about it's members. It cares about making fancy rules that sound good on paper and are totaly impractical. They said Lucasfilm was a personal credit, not a corporate credit. My name is not George Lucasfilm any more than William Fox's name was Twentieth Century-Fox. On that technicality, they sued me for $250,000. You can pollute half the Great Lakes and not get fined that much. When the DGA threatened to fine Kershner $25,000, we paid his fine. I consider it extortion. The day after I settled with the Director's Guild, the Writers Guild called up. At least their fine didn't go all into the business agents' pockets. Two-thirds went to writers."
http://books.google.com/books?id=P2P7pwHeZSkC&pg=PA139
He'll probably roll over dead before either the WGA or DGA get a dirty penny from him. His only choice is to use foreigners and/or beginners, both of which have an obvious lack of appeal, especially since he doens't have to kowtow to anyone anymore. So he sucks it up and does it himself since he can't have anyone really competent and won't trust rookies and doesn't have a whole lot of inclination to compromise with anyone anyway. Marquand (from RotJ) wasn't a member of the DGA.
He should have, but which of them is Lucas going to trust with his baby? I could see him trusting Spielberg, for example, but he has a good relationship with the DGA (and WGA). The experience with Marquand doesn't appear to have been positive. Most unknown/non-members are either going to be intimidated or go directions Lucas didn't want. Remember most of the things that people like in TESB are things that Lucas was trying to prevent but couldn't fully at the time. He has a lot more power now and the biggest mitigating factor that got Lucas to allow many of those things was his ex-wife. Big fat chance of that happening after the divorce.
On this I can agree.
My ultimate "control subject" when it comes to the hate for TPM is in my best friend who was on a mission to Bolivia during the time TPM came out. He left the winter before TPM was to be released and was excited for the movie and was sorry he was going to miss it, he came home two years later. Huge fan of the OT.
So he was not here, or had any contact with the Internet, the media, or really anyone, during the the lead-up to TPM's release, it's release and then the aftermath.
His first full night back in the states he wanted to watch all of the movies he had missed during his time away and the first movie he wanted to watch was TPM. He had no contact with anyone during his first day back, only doctors and others in his church to get him re-integrated back here. (Mostly ensuring his blood work and health was okay) He had some contact with church acquaintances but nothing real meaningfull.
I and our other friends said nothing to him about TPM, when asked how it was we all simply said, "Just have to watch it and decide for your self." (At that time I think we were mostly indifferent towards it.)
So I put in the DVD, fired up the 38" CRT "flat-tube" TV and we watched away.
He expressed some confusion over what the opening crawl set-up and by the time we met Jar-Jar Binks in the movie he was pretty upset and saying, "What have they done to my Star Wars?"
Again, he had been exposed to nothing regarding this movie and he's a HUGE Star Wars fan and as I said he was dying to see this movie. He considered postponing his mission so he could see this but the time he could leave just didn't work for that.
When the movie was over we all talked about it and he was greatly disappointed pretty much saying everything people have been saying for 10 years. Jar-Jar sucked, the kid stuff was annoying, the pod-race scene was too long, the action too minor, Anakin "accidentally" blowing up the ship was lame, Darth Maul was a waste. The duel between Qui-Gon, Obi-Won and Darth Maul was the only worthy part of the movie.
He's my proof that the Star Wars prequels were just that bad. He was tainted by none of the BS that surrounded that movie during its aftermath. He hated purely on the movie's own merits.
