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Phage fallout

A bit off topic.. but I’m watching Faces and something occurred to me about that plotline about Klingons potentially being immune to the phage...how come we never saw non-Viidians afflicted by the phage?? Why wasn’t any of the Voyager crew members who was in close contact with one infected??


:shrug:
 
I wondered the same thing for years. In fact, I think I posted that exact question long ago. Don't remember if a possible answer was ever given.

Though I did theorize that it's a reason why they steal organs from other races... they all are a little immune to the phage. But even after the transplants, it just adapts, so they have to keep getting more body parts.

A bit farfetched, I know, but I never found a reason for the immunity of the crew.

(Or better yet, in "DEADLOCK", how did that Vidiian know Tuvok was a Vulcan? Previously, they have been in close contact with Torres, Durst, and Paris... humans and a half-Klingon. Kes I can see them knowing due to the Ocampa being in that region.)
 
Neelix is a alien so his lungs are probably different from ours. Plus we have seen this kind of issue before. Dr Crusher couldn't replicate Romulan blood in "The Enemy" which is why she went to ask Worf for a transfusion.

While in other episodes they can turn you from a salamander back to a human off-screen and de-age you with a transporter. Probably best no to look at it too closely...
 
During the early seasons, the Starfleet replicators were shot to hell - and the only locals with any knowledge of replicator tech were, well, the Vidiians. It's only to be expected that the heroes would regain many of the classic Starfleet abilities (such as onboard manufacturing of more torpedoes) only beginning with the third season.

The thing here is, "Emanations" shows that the EMH's replicators are already good enough for replicating simple living tissue, that is, new nerves for reanimating the deceased. The inability to fix Neelix is one thing that doesn't directly mesh with this, and calls for that extra bit of rationalizing ("They can replicate, but we saw in "Ethics" that the subsequent hookup job is difficult with complex organs and perhaps the lungs count as such"). It's certainly no showstopper, though.

The other thing is the one where they don't replicate a lung for the Vidiian, and that one is likewise easily covered ("Hooking 'em up is darn difficult, and even if our equipment weren't shot to hell, ya both are previously unseen aliens").

It's the third thing here, the most general one, that may pose problems: how come our heroes can't combine forces with the Vidiians to work even greater wonders with replicator technology? But such cooperation wouldn't be off to a very good start if Janeway responded to deadly force with deadly force.

In the end, as we learn in "Think Tank", it always was about asking for the right people for help. The Vidiians were screwed because everybody around them was a caveman. When they managed to contact civilized and advanced folks, they got the cure all right. And quite possibly Janeway was of direct or indirect help there, as the cure so closely coincides with her flight from Vidiian space to Think Tank space...

So I think that in the greater context, the Vidiian story works out just fine. Janeway did only that which was within her (gradually recovering) powers, and it all ended up well. We are just left musing about the minutiae of the Phage, as we probably should with a thing so alien. And we get all the support we need for that, learning that folks much wiser than us have banged their foreheads against this problem for millennia till they needed new ones. We really aren't required to know, or expected to be capable of knowing, everything about this disease.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I do wonder though what would happen if it played out like Janeway suggested and they just left. The ship would lose their morale officer and Neelix's cooking. The Tuvok and Neelix friendship would never happen. I'm guessing that at that point Kes would probably leave the ship. Then the Vidiian's may have become more bold in their attacks and the next time Voyager would disable/destroy their ship. The doctor having attempted the holographic lungs might take it pretty hard when that fails. Maybe he could invent a mobile lung emitter?

I think my favorite part of the episode is the holographic lungs idea and Tom Paris getting slapped.

Something else that comes to mind, you know how Picard is haunted so much from being assimilated it kind of defines him? Wouldn't Neelix have the same sort of issue from this event? Just randomly having your lungs stolen would probably completely change someone's personality
 
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To be fair, nothing should have prevented the Doctor from using Neelix's own stem-cells for example to grow a new pair of lungs without replicators.
Growing them like that would probably be the simplest way of going about it if there is a technical limitation to the replicators (which realistically there shouldn't be, except for maybe available energy - but this wasn't specifically mentioned)... I'm pretty sure they have needed resources on board.
Neelix also went through the transporter on numerous occasions... his pattern contained the exact specifications for his lungs... so, there was no reason for why his lungs couldn't be replicated and attached using the medical transporters (they've certainly done crazier stuff).

In fact, most of Trek seems to shun away from using stem-cells and more on cybernetic replacements... which seems odd to say the least.

I do like Timo's explanation that they could not replicate new lungs because Voyager had issues with power and resources in the first 2 seasons (and it seems the most probable)... however, power shortage was never explicitly mentioned in the episode for the reason why replicators couldn't have made Neelix new lungs, and Voyager could have made several detours in uninhabited star systems to use solar power for energy and then use that to replicate spare parts and whatever else they needed to augment their energy reserves (as opposed to relying on ship's power).
Most of the time the crew ended up looking for raw materials, they weren't really looking for basic elements, but rather 'complete forms/deposits' of what they needed... and most of the time, they turned out to be non-existent (like in the case of Dilithium moon which was a Vidiian organ storage facility), or part of a living organism (like the omicron particles which were part of that living nebula - I still don't see why Voyager couldn't just scoop up some stray omicron particles from one of the 'currents' which they used to come back to the wound in RCS drift mode without being attacked).

But also given the fact that the ship was being harassed by the Kazon a lot and undergoing various issues with power drainage from anomalies, etc., it stands to reason why the crew would be limited at first in what they could do - I just wish this was specifically mentioned on-screen.

Still, I maintain that Voyager's resource and energy issues would not be a problem if they just sat down in an uninhabited star system, collected raw materials and just recombined them using a bit less sophisticated methods into what they needed until they could use the replicators more reliably, or just power them using solar energy - and besides, we've seen replicators working early on... just not being used as much due to energy shortage.

Torpedoes and shuttles could have later on been replaced as well (off-screen mostly) by either trading with other species or going into uninhabited star systems where deposits of direct materials actually existed.

Having said that, I'm actually very suspicious about the Vidiians having superior medical knowledge vs the Federation (which is comprised of over 150 different alien species by the late 24th century), least of all that the Vidiians never thought about using stem-cells to grow replacement organs - which could be done in a nick of time thanks to the fact most Trek species (including the Federation) seem to be able to augment growth of various substances and matter under controlled conditions by many times.
 
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Regarding using the transporter for Neelix...

Exvept for the pilot, by the time "PHAGE" occured, Neelix only went through it in the pilot. Since he is a completely alien phhsiology to them, it may take either more uses or more time, or both, for the transporter to really get a new set right if they were to go that route.

Might also be one of the duties of a CMO, which The Doctor was barely on much by that point.
 
For all we know, the Ba'ku originally came from somewhere in Dominion space, what with their offshoot Son'a later credited with the ability to produce Ketracel White for the bad guys... But if the Ba'ku refugees can travel across quadrants within their original humanlike lifetimes, then perhaps they wandered off to Delta first, and met the Vidiians?

Then again, the Son'a don't have any known disease. They simply grow old and don't like it, being jealous of their cousins who never age. Vidiians in turn have no aging-related issues that we'd know of.

To be fair, nothing should have prevented the Doctor from using Neelix's own stem-cells for example to grow a new pair of lungs without replicators.

Absolutely. It's just that Neelix would die while the lungs were still growing.

Neelix also went through the transporter on numerous occasions... his pattern contained the exact specifications for his lungs...

But as far as we can tell, transporter patterns are virtually useless as sources of information. The heroes never really know what they are transporting, after all.

Basically, it seems a transporter just turns people into phased people and then back, without bothering with "specifications" much. It might be hellishly difficult to dig up relevant medical information from that, considering how it's never done: the only medical use witnessed has been to resurrect the whole package as a whole from an intact pattern. (Perhaps they should have created a full copy of Neelix and then harvested that for its lung?)

I do like Timo's explanation that they could not replicate new lungs because Voyager had issues with power and resources in the first 2 seasons (and it seems the most probable)... however, power shortage was never explicitly mentioned in the episode for the reason why replicators couldn't have made Neelix new lungs, and Voyager could have made several detours in uninhabited star systems to use solar power for energy and then use that to replicate spare parts and whatever else they needed to augment their energy reserves (as opposed to relying on ship's power).

Not power (which the ship had aplenty, or she couldn't warp), but broken replicators. Inability to replicate enough was already an explicit issue, with the food rationing and all.

Apparently, the minor power reallocation hiccup where holodeck power couldn't be rerouted was never much of a deal, as rerouting of mere life support power (that is, some fans and heaters) solved it.

Still, I maintain that Voyager's resource and energy issues would not be a problem if they just sat down in an uninhabited star system, collected raw materials and just recombined them using a bit less sophisticated methods into what they needed until they could use the replicators more reliably, or just power them using solar energy - and besides, we've seen replicators working early on... just not being used as much due to energy shortage.

Since this didn't happen, though, we can easily argue that the heroes just plain couldn't fix their machines unless they somehow obtained working machines with which to make the tools for fixing their machines...

The vicious circle could only be broken by reaching a friendly port where the replicators could be repaired - after which everything else could be trivially repaired, too, and the replicator rationing scheme would become a mere disciplinary tool with no practical significance. And that could only ever happen after the Nekrit Expanse.

Having said that, I'm actually very suspicious about the Vidiians having superior medical knowledge vs the Federation (which is comprised of over 150 different alien species by the late 24th century)

...But if that's a bunch of cavemen, how can they one-up an advanced species that has dedicated millennia to medicine alone?

Medicine on Earth today is incredibly backward chiefly because it is a taboo subject. While it is possible and, by current ethics, even obligatory to study and treat disease till the treatment kills the patient, it is forbidden to study health: healthy humans cannot be subjected to proper experiments where the pros and cons of assorted factors would be established. It was way, way worse just a couple of centuries ago, when we knew absolutely nothing about medicine (but thought we knew a lot) - again chiefly because of taboo issues and the ban on applying the scientific method on medicine. I don't see Trek's humanlike Federation members being any different in that respect.

Vidiians would not be hindered in that fashion. To the contrary, they would be vivisecting the hell out of every patient in their desperation. No ethical issues with healthy subjects would interfere, there being no healthy subjects!

Timo Saloniemi
 
Absolutely. It's just that Neelix would die while the lungs were still growing.

Not if the Doctor created holographic lungs like he originally did and then grew the new lungs using stem-cells.
As we previously saw, Federation technology CAN accelerate growth of various subtstances (including cloned Humanoids) to an exceedingly high degree...
On DS9, a clone was practically fully grown in a span of a day... individual organs would take much less time.
In TNG, a less advanced human colony was able to accelerate human clones growth to a similar level.

But as far as we can tell, transporter patterns are virtually useless as sources of information. The heroes never really know what they are transporting, after all.

Not really.
The transporter pattern was used on several occasions as an accurate source of information of a healthy individual.
Picard was reconstituted from energy into matter using his previous transporter pattern.
A healthy sample of dr.Pulaski's DNA was needed to cure her of the virus which made her age rapidly - this didn't rely on a previous transporter pattern (but it was mentioned that if they had one, it could have been used).
Picard, Guinan and Keiko's original transporter patterns were used as a template to help bring them out of adolescence into adulthood.

I'd say the info stored in a transporter buffer gives you pretty much exact details of a person and can be used as a rather reliable reference in medical treatments.

Basically, it seems a transporter just turns people into phased people and then back, without bothering with "specifications" much. It might be hellishly difficult to dig up relevant medical information from that, considering how it's never done: the only medical use witnessed has been to resurrect the whole package as a whole from an intact pattern. (Perhaps they should have created a full copy of Neelix and then harvested that for its lung?)

As far we were told, it the transporter turns them into an energy which is contained within a matter stream and then targeted to a certain location where it's re-assembled into matter.
To be able to accurately deconstruct a person like that into energy and then back into matter, the transporter needs to understand what to do (how the person looks like on the inside out, and it needs to be EXCESSIVELY detailed - probably to the subatomic level - to be able to do that... otherwise, if you miss out on a piece of information, you could end up as spread atoms or proverbial soup.

Not power (which the ship had aplenty, or she couldn't warp), but broken replicators. Inability to replicate enough was already an explicit issue, with the food rationing and all.

If the replicators were stated to have been broken, I would have agreed with you (and it does make sense).
Still, this was never explicitly mentioned to be the problem. Lack of power was predominantly the issue behind replicator use being rationed.

Apparently, the minor power reallocation hiccup where holodeck power couldn't be rerouted was never much of a deal, as rerouting of mere life support power (that is, some fans and heaters) solved it.

Except that they DID attempt to reroute power from the Holodeck in Season 5 (but failed - mainly because the hologrid was frozen at the time).
Albeit its possible the crew managed to make the Holodeck energy sources compatible with other systems by that point... still why would the holodeck have its own independent power source... and why would this energy be incompatible with the rest of the ship (especially because they had power conversion technology which can convert it from one form into another)?

Since this didn't happen, though, we can easily argue that the heroes just plain couldn't fix their machines unless they somehow obtained working machines with which to make the tools for fixing their machines...

The vicious circle could only be broken by reaching a friendly port where the replicators could be repaired - after which everything else could be trivially repaired, too, and the replicator rationing scheme would become a mere disciplinary tool with no practical significance. And that could only ever happen after the Nekrit Expanse.

And yet, Voyager seemingly had enough to affect major combat repairs, etc.
My guess is that the writers just didn't think this through enough within the context of what kind of technology they had to work with (and we've seen that they dumbed down technology use on numerous occasions for the sake of 'drama').
Either that, or, because the crew was rationing replicator use, those replicator rations could have went towards making of spare parts when they were needed.

...But if that's a bunch of cavemen, how can they one-up an advanced species that has dedicated millennia to medicine alone?

The Federation was not comprised of cavemen - but instead MULTIPLE highly advanced space fairing cultures.
Advancements occur on an exponential level, and the Federation is comprised of over 150 alien species by the late 24th century which shared information readily in most aspects of science and health. Automation alone is over 1000 times faster than humans in finding solutions to problems (even with current day technology).

150 alien species sharing info and tech/science evolving exponentially (especially with automated R&D with nothing more than specialized algorithms that are used right now) would easily surf past 1 race dealing with a medical problem for a 1000 years easily enough (even if they were dissecting other species).
And yes, same would apply in the 23rd century with less members (presumably a dozen or several dozen).
The Federation has radically advanced sensor technology (which is non-invasive to boot).
Some species which came aboard Federation ships were fearing medical examination and they had to be told its a non-invasive bio-scan.

But there's also another thing... in the first 2 seasons of Voyager, the crew more readily used terms such as 'Class V humanoid' when dealing with an unidentified species... that alone indicated that the Federation acquired extensive information about probable humanoid evolutionary patterns (from not just its member races but others in the AQ too) which gave them a unique way to better identify unknown alien species (and how to treat them in the process).

As the show went on, they stopped using those terminologies... and I noticed that medical treatments which the doctor treated in the first 2 seasons effortlessly, he suddenly couldn't DO anything similar without nanoprobes (a classical case of writers dumbing down technology in Trek to increase drama).
The Doctor was able to eradicate an infection on Be'Lanna and Kim which was given to them by the Caretaker in an attempt to reproduce.
And then after meeting 7 of 9, suddenly EVERYTHING required nanoprobes.
No doubt nanotechnology is highly effective, but the Federation has its own medical nanotechnology as well which would have been up to the task - but we know the writers didn't want to make things 'easy' on Voyager, so they ignored this.

Medicine on Earth today is incredibly backward chiefly because it is a taboo subject. While it is possible and, by current ethics, even obligatory to study and treat disease till the treatment kills the patient, it is forbidden to study health: healthy humans cannot be subjected to proper experiments where the pros and cons of assorted factors would be established. It was way, way worse just a couple of centuries ago, when we knew absolutely nothing about medicine (but thought we knew a lot) - again chiefly because of taboo issues and the ban on applying the scientific method on medicine. I don't see Trek's humanlike Federation members being any different in that respect.

Vidiians would not be hindered in that fashion. To the contrary, they would be vivisecting the hell out of every patient in their desperation. No ethical issues with healthy subjects would interfere, there being no healthy subjects!

Timo Saloniemi

The Federation would not have too many (if any) taboos that apply today... except when it comes to genetic modification of individuals for the purpose of enhancement... however, they still do extensive genetic studies to repair any potential genetic defects in individuals.

Also, the Federation is hardly only 'humanlike'.
Its supposed to be comprised of over 150 different alien species which cooperate and live together.
There would be no 'humanlike Federation'... they have a Federation Council comprised of numerous species for crying out loud.
The Federation does have certain 'standards' for entry, but those standards were drafted by all founding members of the Federation, not just Humans (even though Starfleet was designated to be the defensive and exploratory arm of the Federation - probably because Humans managed to bridge the gap between Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians, who couldn't really find too common a ground before Humanity showed up).
But that's pretty much it... we know that Starfleet is highly diverse and probably doesn't apply same standards to ALL of the alien species that apply to go through the Academy, etc. - it wouldn't be possible... as not all Federation species are probably humanoid in the first place... and we've seen that one humanoid species in the federation can have many different needs than your run of the mill humanoid.
 
Having said that, I'm actually very suspicious about the Vidiians having superior medical knowledge vs the Federation (which is comprised of over 150 different alien species by the late 24th century), least of all that the Vidiians never thought about using stem-cells to grow replacement organs
Eh, everyone's got a blind spot. After all, the Federation has FTL drive, mass-energy conversion, and gravity control — but they don't know about seat belts or circuit breakers. :nyah:
 
Not if the Doctor created holographic lungs like he originally did and then grew the new lungs using stem-cells. As we previously saw, Federation technology CAN accelerate growth of various subtstances (including cloned Humanoids) to an exceedingly high degree... On DS9, a clone was practically fully grown in a span of a day... individual organs would take much less time. In TNG, a less advanced human colony was able to accelerate human clones growth to a similar level.

Neither of those was "Federation technology", to be accurate... But okay, perhaps replacement organs could be created at the push of the button via various technologies, not limited to the replicator. But then we could simply assume that all those wonderful machines were broken, in various ways.

[uote]Not really. The transporter pattern was used on several occasions as an accurate source of information of a healthy individual. Picard was reconstituted from energy into matter using his previous transporter pattern.[/quote]

...Which was just Standard Transporting 101.

A healthy sample of dr.Pulaski's DNA was needed to cure her of the virus which made her age rapidly - this didn't rely on a previous transporter pattern (but it was mentioned that if they had one, it could have been used).

...Which wasn't transporter pattern use at all.

Picard, Guinan and Keiko's original transporter patterns were used as a template to help bring them out of adolescence into adulthood.

Which again was just letting the transporter do what it always do, assembling whole people out of whole patterns.

I'd say the info stored in a transporter buffer gives you pretty much exact details of a person and can be used as a rather reliable reference in medical treatments.

Only, solely and exclusively for reconstituting the entire person, though. Not bits and pieces of him.

To be able to accurately deconstruct a person like that into energy and then back into matter, the transporter needs to understand what to do (how the person looks like on the inside out, and it needs to be EXCESSIVELY detailed - probably to the subatomic level - to be able to do that... otherwise, if you miss out on a piece of information, you could end up as spread atoms or proverbial soup.[/qoote]

Or then the transporter does exactly nothing to the victim, except phase him, which involves zero knowledge of what is being phased. For all we know, something that's phased will even revert back to normal matter all on its own, given time, which is how people materialize without a transporter pattern: you push them to ghostspace, then give them a further push in a direction, and let them float there through walls, until they bob back up to normalspace, at a spot dictated by the ballistics of the shoving.

That the transporter would understand what it's doing is not a requirement as per anything specific seen on screen. Elevators can't tell whether they are moving philosophers or racks of cutlery, either.

If the replicators were stated to have been broken, I would have agreed with you (and it does make sense).
Still, this was never explicitly mentioned to be the problem. Lack of power was predominantly the issue behind replicator use being rationed.

But lack of power isn't a valid reason: the ship had all the power she needed. She could do warp and shields and phasers, after all, with zero mention of power problems there.

Lack of power wasn't mentioned as a rationale for the replicator rationing, either. There simply was no explication of the cause.

Instead, Neelix is allowed to cook, and Janeway invents excuses for this, such as "saving replicator energy". But what actually happens is that the heroes physically rip out and discard a wallful of replicators, these supposedly being as much junk, and let Neelix establish his kitchen in the vacated space. Circumstantially, that smacks more of broken hardware than of energy allocation issues. Sure, energy is also saved, supposedly for the remaining replicators to use, but they'd get it anyway if they needed it, with the push of a button.
Except that they DID attempt to reroute power from the Holodeck in Season 5 (but failed - mainly because the hologrid was frozen at the time).[/quote]

And then shrugged because the energy involved apparently wasn't relevant (else why give up the fight) or significant (else why replace it with juice taken from fans and heaters).

Albeit its possible the crew managed to make the Holodeck energy sources compatible with other systems by that point... still why would the holodeck have its own independent power source... and why would this energy be incompatible with the rest of the ship (especially because they had power conversion technology which can convert it from one form into another)?

Power tends to be incompatible by nature: Europe has dozens of electrified railroads with the same voltage and frequency, still fundamentally incompatible and incapable of seeing a locomotive through the continent.

For all we know, everything in the ship has its own power source, in addition to drawing from the main grid. And it was never designer intent to use these auxiliary sources in the reverse: they only exist for covering the failure of the main grid, or taking burden off it. But the heroes may have had some success with reverse-running a couple of the APUs, and were a bit frustrated that the holodeck ones didn't comply. But not overly concerned, as we can see.

The Federation was not comprised of cavemen - but instead MULTIPLE highly advanced space fairing cultures.

Relative cavemen, for all we know. What possible reason would we have for insisting that they were up to Vidiian levels of advancement? Any idiot can have a starship and a raygun. Non-cavemen just have more advanced ones, and additionally some gadgets the cavemen could never think of.

Advancements occur on an exponential level

How so? For all we know, they always plateau out. After all, in the UFP, they have - the whole is only marginally more advanced than the least advanced individual species we know of, the 22nd century humans.

and the Federation is comprised of over 150 alien species by the late 24th century which shared information readily in most aspects of science and health.

But if they are cavemen, they have little to share, and the Vidiians win. If all of North and South America shared knowledge in the 1500s, they still couldn't top the tiny Europe, which simply was more advanced.

Automation alone is over 1000 times faster than humans in finding solutions to problems (even with current day technology).

So perhaps the Vidiians have more or better automation.

150 alien species sharing info and tech/science evolving exponentially (especially with automated R&D with nothing more than specialized algorithms that are used right now) would easily surf past 1 race dealing with a medical problem for a 1000 years easily enough (even if they were dissecting other species).

How so? 150 species is just one species once it starts to share: there's no extra innovation or input anywhere in the equation. Except if we count geniuses in the population, and the Vidiians might simply have more, absolutely in addition to relatively speaking.

The Federation has radically advanced sensor technology (which is non-invasive to boot).

And the Vidiians appear to have even better.

Some species which came aboard Federation ships were fearing medical examination and they had to be told its a non-invasive bio-scan.

And they were cavemen, not understanding transporters or replicators either. So where does this leave your argument that cavemen can't exist? Everything simply comes in degrees.

But there's also another thing... in the first 2 seasons of Voyager, the crew more readily used terms such as 'Class V humanoid' when dealing with an unidentified species... that alone indicated that the Federation acquired extensive information about probable humanoid evolutionary patterns (from not just its member races but others in the AQ too) which gave them a unique way to better identify unknown alien species (and how to treat them in the process).

Quite possibly so. And then they'd find out that nothing about Delta was all that different from what they knew already. Until they did meet something new, later on.

That the heroes would get dumber is not a requirement if the villains get smarter. And they aren't exactly forbidden from doing that. Might be the Doctor kept on effortlessly treating the easy cases off screen (because not drama), yet with a few challenges added to the mix.

The Federation would not have too many (if any) taboos that apply today... except when it comes to genetic modification of individuals for the purpose of enhancement... however, they still do extensive genetic studies to repair any potential genetic defects in individuals.

No taboos? The Hippocratic Oath already is very much one. And we still get no sign there would be studies on health. Or any knowledge on the one correct way to live forever. Even for given species.

Also, the Federation is hardly only 'humanlike'.

We still haven't met a member species that wouldn't be humanlike, though. Sure, Vulcans duel to death - but they still aren't known to study health, or do other inhuman things.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I just got to the episode Faces and I totally forgot they stole that guys face. It kind of brings to mind if Janeway had taken a harsher response in the earlier maybe it would have saved that guy's life. They would know not to mess with the Voyager crew.

That face scene got to me more than any of the gore in Picard lmao
 
I'm not really convinced a harsher response by Janeway earlier would have made a difference.

In "PHAGE", they were just regular Vidiians. Or a noteworthy sculptor and his organ harvester.

In "FACES", it was clearly the scientific and military arm of the Vidiians. Now, if the military ones were encountered first, a harsher response might have sent the message loud and clear to leave them alone. We have no idea if the ones in "PHAGE" even talked to any of the higher ups in the Vidiian Sodality.

There should have been a harsher response after "FACES", though. The first time, it was a pair of civilians who were desperate, and they ended up trying to make amends. This time, though, they just turned tail and ran. That sent the Vidiian military the wrong message. It very likely was a factor in them going after Voyager in "DEADLOCK" in the first place.
 
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