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Person of Interest Season 4

So does anyone else think that Finch and The Machine had their little talk off screen and the mission in Hong Kong was the result? If so, is Finch now in "god mode"?

I don't think Finch would ever accept "god mode." He wouldn't trust himself with that power. He wouldn't trust anyone with it, though he tolerates it uneasily in Root's case because she's basically on his side. But he may have established a more open channel of communication with the Machine than he had before. I do hope it's not long until we learn just what their "talk" was about.
 
Well, looks like Shaw will be in trouble if Samaritan manages to extract her facial features, but at least there might be some support from the relevant side in the future.
 
Interesting how that new term -- "the relevant side" -- only debuted this week (as far as I recall) and yet was used as if it had been standard all along.
 
The Machine has typically referred to "the relevant side" as Primary Operations. This leaves Secondary Operations as Team Finch's "irrelevant", and Tertiary Operations is Root's work. Tertiary Operations has also been described as "necessary".

Meanwhile I doubt Harold would accept God Mode, even if The Machine would allow him such power. He's been quite clear that it's a power no human should possess. That's the reason he set The Machine free in the first place.
 
I just watched this for the first time since it started tonight, and thanks to Wikipedia and the PoI wiki, I was able to follow it pretty well. The only thing I was confused on was why Samaritan and Greer had Martine going after Shaw. Does it just see the Machine Team as a threat or is there more to it than that?
 
Loved tonight's episode. I missed Root, but the stuff with Reese was some of the best stuff I've seen all season. Can't wait for next week's thriller.
 
I just watched this for the first time since it started tonight, and thanks to Wikipedia and the PoI wiki, I was able to follow it pretty well. The only thing I was confused on was why Samaritan and Greer had Martine going after Shaw. Does it just see the Machine Team as a threat or is there more to it than that?

Last season, they were actively working against Samaritan's creation, so they're definitely a threat to it. They only manage to avoid detection thanks to the program Root installed in Samaritan that prevents it from recognizing their faces. (As we see in the opening titles, which are now from Samaritan's POV -- initially their faces are labeled "Threat Detected" and then it glitches and changes to "Irrelevant.")
 
Which begs the question now that once Samaritan learns of this glitch what will happen with the team?

It depends how the shootout in the next episode develops.. what Greer refers to in the episode as "good old fashioned human intelligence" aka eyes on the ground there are still areas where a human is preferrable to technological devices.

All hinges now on Shaw taking out the assassin lady before she can pass on her knowledge because she is now the thread that can unravel the entire operation.

Next episode could be a real nail biter as the team races to prevent the blowup of their cover identities.
 
This weeks episode 'Point of Origin' was in my opinion one episode too many. The showdown between Samaritan and The Machine should have started in this episode with 'Dominic vs Elias' immediately afterwards. Hopefully the show writers will be able to intertwine both stories. I wouldn't be surprised if Greer was behind The Brotherhood somehow especially as Elias seems to take precautions against electronic devices.

PoI is a wonderful show but I do miss the Reese from season 1 a lot. Things were rough back then, he was rough (hunted by the CIA, Kara Stanton etc).
 
Damn, this show just made me tear up over the death of a brutal mob assassin. Watching the game of cat and mouse between two genius criminals like Dominic and Elias is fantastic. They had me seriously worried for Elias there for a while, which just shows how great the writing is that second and third tier characters who are unapologetically bad guys (although better than the alternative) still get enough nuance and development that you really care for them. It's not new to have bad guys you enjoy on a TV show, but it's rare to have so many who are served so well by the writers.

The fight between Shaw and Martine was also great. The final lineup of HumInt agents/assassins Samaritan is sending out to scour the city with Martine was chilling. Wonderful performances by Sara Shahi and Amy Acker, the latter in showing her concern for Shaw as a companion and partner, and the former for her sense of rage and betrayal because Root drugged her to save her life.

They've also done a good job of giving Fusco some rewarding scenes, like the way he sized up Martine in a second and fed her a convincing story while also exposing her lie.

Great episode.
 
I kinda have a problem with the whole concept of Elias. If he's such a nice, cuddly, well-intentioned guy, why didn't he go into a legitimate profession in the first place? That's where the idea of making a mob boss sympathetic and likeable falls down. Sure, you can play such a character as ambiguous, as ultimately hypocritical and clueless for believing himself to be a decent man when there's still so much rot at his foundations. But that's not what they did here. They painted Elias in too idealized a fashion. He just wants to talk to the guy who betrayed him. He's redeveloping a slum building to give back to the community. He's mourning the loss of his dear childhood chum. Aww. It was just too hagiographic. If you're going to call the episode "The Devil You Know," then at least give us a stronger, more honest indication of Elias's devilish qualities. If you want him to be sympathetic, you've already got that covered by casting Enrico Colantoni. So let the writing play at least a little against his innate likeability.

But I love it that they're not only still playing up the Root-Shaw flirtation angle, but making it more blatant every time. Root was practically copping a feel of Shaw while they were hiding in the moving van, and later on, she came pretty close to confessing to being in love with Shaw.
 
I love the Elias character. He's so calm and businesslike. A guy you'd like to play chess with! Until he guts you like a fish...

When Martine laid eyes on Shaw at the end...chills.

Great show.
 
That WAS a great episode. I keep thinking that they were going to do something cliche, like have Anthony betray him but instead, they are loyal to each other to the end.

So now Samaritan has an army to send out after Shaw, and possibly the others, too. I can't wait to see more.
 
I kinda have a problem with the whole concept of Elias. If he's such a nice, cuddly, well-intentioned guy, why didn't he go into a legitimate profession in the first place? That's where the idea of making a mob boss sympathetic and likeable falls down. Sure, you can play such a character as ambiguous, as ultimately hypocritical and clueless for believing himself to be a decent man when there's still so much rot at his foundations. But that's not what they did here. They painted Elias in too idealized a fashion. He just wants to talk to the guy who betrayed him. He's redeveloping a slum building to give back to the community. He's mourning the loss of his dear childhood chum. Aww. It was just too hagiographic. If you're going to call the episode "The Devil You Know," then at least give us a stronger, more honest indication of Elias's devilish qualities. If you want him to be sympathetic, you've already got that covered by casting Enrico Colantoni. So let the writing play at least a little against his innate likeability.

Did you miss the end with the "accountant" where Elias made it clear that he was going to kill all the people who betrayed him and sided with Dominic? If John (who wouldn't allow Elias to execute someone in front of him) hadn't been present at the meeting with the traitor, and Elias hadn't been in the line of fire, and the odds hadn't been so even, I doubt Elias would hesitate to have Anthony kill him right there. Just because he's smart enough to not act impulsively doesn't mean he's forgiving of the betrayal.

He's also not remotely a nice, cuddly guy (and he's only well-intentioned in seeking order over chaos between outlaws, which is hardly an unusual trait of organized crime). He had his henchman garrote a wounded prisoner in custody in a hospital while he enjoyed watching it, for crying out loud. Also, in the same scene where he had Simmons killed, he quite explicitly spells out that he doesn't think of himself as civilized and compares himself to Simmons directly as an outlier from humanity's more savage past, so he's under no delusions about his nature. Being better than the alternative of anarchy in the streets doesn't make you a nice guy. Coincidentally (or not, because the writers are pretty good at planning this stuff out), that episode was named "The Devil's Share," which was a commentary on the concept of supernatural retribution, but could also be seen as an earlier allusion to Elias in the Devil role and the Faustian bargain Finch and John have struck with him because he's the devil they know.

Mobsters frequently engage in community activism and public works projects, for both selfish and marginally selfless reasons. The mafia's involvement in union activity was to exert some control over the means of production and distribution, but there was also a genuine desire to improve the condition of their Italian or Irish or Jewish or Black (etc.) brethren. They run a protection racket to raise funds that often intimidates small businesses, but it does also provide protection from other less organized criminals that might prey on them. Improving your neighborhood and winning the hearts and minds of your community can pay dividends by making people in your community less likely to report your illegal activities to the police. This is not to say that mobsters are nice guys, but they're also not simplistically evil thugs all the time, either. Check the Real World entries under the Neighborhood Friendly Mobsters TVTropes page or this article from Cracked for examples (I can provide more in-depth articles from actual news sources if you like, but I figured those two sites would be appropriate for this discussion). To go full Godwin, Hitler was surprisingly enamored with kids (albeit, only Aryan ones) and dogs. People are weird and complex like that; sometimes even the most evil ones. Mobsters care for their families and friends too.

I think the fact that Elias left an explosive booby trap to blow up his enemies (and possibly himself) if he was cornered and the implied threat of murder behind his more mildly expressed threats for Harold and John not to get in his way while he takes down Dominic's organization make it clear that he's not a nice man and is not to be trifled with, no matter how much he may admire and like them.
 
Did you miss the end with the "accountant" where Elias made it clear that he was going to kill all the people who betrayed him and sided with Dominic?

Yes, but it's a question of emphasis and impressions. I'm talking about what aspects of Elias the writers chose to play up. The episode didn't ignore the fact that he's a criminal, but it shoved it into the background as much as possible while going out of its way to make him seem nice and sympathetic.


He's also not remotely a nice, cuddly guy (and he's only well-intentioned in seeking order over chaos between outlaws, which is hardly an unusual trait of organized crime).

Yes, that is exactly my point. We know that about Elias from past episodes, but this specific episode went out of its way to minimize the acknowledgment of that side of him. Other episodes have been successful at showing Elias's ambiguity, but this one dumbed it down and tried to minimize the ambiguity of John protecting a mobster.
 
I don't think the episode did that at all, because from this episode alone he's still the type of guy who's willing to leave explosive booby traps that take out entire floors of buildings to kill his foes, he still threatened the lives of people he respects and likes who just saved him (and have before) if they get in the way of his plans, he still ordered the death of the people who betrayed him, and he's still about to embark on a gangland war to wipe out his enemies. Seems pretty hardcore and unapologetically gangster to me.:shrug:
 
^But most of that is stuff they only suggested on the periphery. And the bomb could be interpreted as "self-defense," not much worse than the sort of thing Reese or Shaw might do (I mean, Elias even made sure it was in a condemned building so no civilians would be hurt). Once again, I'm not saying that stuff was totally absent, I'm saying it was de-emphasized while his nicer qualities were a bit too self-consciously emphasized. It just felt like they were trying too hard to make us sympathize with him, which wasn't necessary, because having Colantoni play the role already covers that.
 
Fantastic episode.

Like Locutus, I was moved by the final scenes of loyal-to-the-end Anthony. The death of a recurring character's bodyguard was elevated to monumental status by great writing and superb performances by fine actors. When Elias' voice broke while delivering the final number sequence...wow. I hope Colantoni gets a nomination for best guest actor for this episode.

The Elias of the rest of the episode was the unflappable and sardonic mob boss that we've come to expect and appreciate, but even that went above and beyond. The shot of him coolly waiting in the elevator behind Reese and Anthony while bullets were flying everywhere. His small nod as he accepted that one of his once-loyal capos had betrayed him and then he calmly left the restaurant. The "This isn't my favorite room" line when trapped inside the site of probably uncountable beatings as a child. The most telling, though, has to be the story he told to Reese about how he and Anthony had bonded over their shared patricidal sentiments. Insightful and chilling.

After Shaw's face-off, the cover identities should now begin to unravel for all of our heroes with the Eyeball squad on their collective tails. This is a good thing, I think. So far this season, they've explored this "hiding in plain sight" status quo long enough and it's time to progress to the next status quo. I trust the PoI team to make the next twist in the road even better and more interesting than the current one.
 
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