Person of Interest Season 4

[Aragorn]

I have no such attitude. In fact, I explicitly said I find Shaw to be a more charismatic and enjoyable character than Reese. Doesn't mean I think it's likely for Shahi to take the lead role over from Caviezel when he's shown no indication of wanting to leave the show.

I can't find the interview, but Caviezel said that after watching 24, he told he agent to find him a show like that. Well he's got one and it seems like he's gonna stick around until the end.

 

[Christopher]

Ohh, they had better not have done to Shaw what it looks like they did! It looks pretty bad, but we didn't actually see the outcome, and

Spoiler: next week

the promo suggests there's a chance she's alive.

I'll be upset if they kill Shaw off, not only because Sarah Shahi is gorgeous and much more interesting than Jim Caviezel, but because if they do kill her off, that will mean that both of the main-title regulars this show has killed off will have been women of color, and that both of them were fridged -- i.e. killed off to create angst in a person for whom they were romantic interests. Not to mention that, in both cases, they didn't even become overt romantic interests until just before they got killed off. It would be unfortunate if this became a repeated pattern.

Otherwise, though, it was a pretty effective episode, although that third simulation got a little weird. Who knew the Machine had a sense of humor?

And did I hear Harold finally refer to the Machine as "she?" It was just in a simulation, though; maybe that's what the Machine would like him to call her.

 

[Caretaker]

I didn't realize that Sarah Shahi is pregnant until the (repeated) scene where the SWAT team boards the train. That's the only time I can think of when it seemed obvious to me.

I wonder if the writers are going to have Fusco learn about The Machine. In the simulations (and the reality), he asked who Shaw was talking to. I would think that the revelation needs to be made at some point.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I remember a season ago he Sherlocked that they were using some sort of computery doohicky.

Which is spot on accurate for Fusco, even though that is also what he calls the precinct coffee machine.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I didn't realize that Sarah Shahi is pregnant until the (repeated) scene where the SWAT team boards the train. That's the only time I can think of when it seemed obvious to me.

I noticed that she was pregnant about 3 or four episodes ago. She's having twins: http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/07/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-sarah-shahi-pregnant

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Another home run. So many highs and lows and "holy shit!" moments, and surprisingly hilariously funny throughout given the situation Team Machine was in. There was so much happening in this episode, both epic and subtle in nature.

For instance, on the subtle side, the Degas artwork was a meta-reference to the events of the episode. It's called "Dancer Adjusting Her Slipper" and was one of numerous drawings Degas made of dancers adjusting their shoes, drawings which he himself made from different poses and angles until he got it right, and used as practice for the many ballet paintings he would later do. So it's like the Machine going through multiple practice runs trying to create a finished work to get Her team out alive. I don't know why someone would keep a Degas original in a cheap metal poster frame in a basement maintenance corridor, but it was a nice scene(s) and a cool metaphor for the team's predicament.

The code Harold was unsuccessfully trying to get Fusco to punch in was supposedly:

env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"

Which is a test to see if a computer system is vulnerable to a software bug called Shellshock, which I suspect Harold then used to infiltrate it.

Shellshock, also known as Bashdoor, is a family of security bugs in the widely used Unix Bash shell, the first of which was disclosed on 24 September 2014. Many Internet-facing services, such as some web server deployments, use Bash to process certain requests, allowing an attacker to cause vulnerable versions of Bash to execute arbitrary commands. This can allow an attacker to gain unauthorized access to a computer system.

That's pretty awesome how much effort they put into even an offhand reference like that, and how up to date they are with computer science (which, of course, makes sense given the subject matter of the show, but it's not something most shows bother with, so kudos to the writers).

Who knew the Machine was so damn funny? Between Fusco kissing Root in the simulation and Fusco's many Sawyer-from-Lost-like nicknames for Root ("Nutella", "Nutter Butter", and "Banana Nut Crunch" ) and the awesome Simplified Simulation dialogue it's making Mr. Data look downright primitive, and shows an impressive grasp of the personalities of its "acolytes," as Greer calls them.

Simplified Simulation:

Reese - "Cruelly delivered sadistic warning."
Fusco- “Self-deprecating inquiry into the amount of time necessary to infiltrate system.”
Root - "Funny yet insightful retort."
Finch - “Mildly agitated declaration of mission completion.”
Finch - "Gentle exhortation to further action."

Root - “Overly affectionate greeting.”
Shaw - “Greeting.”
Root - “Transparent rationale for conversation.”
Shaw - “Annoyed attempt to deflect subtext.”
Root - “Overt come-on.”
Shaw - “Mildly embarrassed offensiveness bordering on hostility.”
Root - “Playfully witty sign off.”

The flashbacks to Finch teaching the Machine chess, and the lesson Harold attached to it about why he dislikes chess was fascinating and perfectly matched to the events of the episode. It also gives greater depth to the sense of betrayal Harold felt when the Machine asked them to kill the Senator last season, even though the Machine clearly has embraced the idea that no human being is expendable or irrelevent, the stakes were simply too high. Although maybe it was hoping they would talk Her out of it.

We now see one of the jobs the Machine had those hackers She recruited last season working on was this backup to prevent a stock market crash. Nice callback there.

I'm thinking Shaw's not actually dead given the preview for next week, and the fact that the episode after the next is entitled "M.I.A." I'm hoping they're just giving Shahi some time off for maternity leave and that she'll be back later on. That being said, my prediction about her being the most likely one to bite the dust in this episode (even if it is a fake-out, since they did the old gunshot behind a closed door trick) was true. I just hope she comes back. Because now even the Machine is more charismatic and funny than Reese.

But, man, that "death" scene hit me hard, because I thought for sure they were going to go all the way with it to show the stakes in this war. Amy Acker did a fantastic job with her scenes behind the elevator door. Just heartbreaking.

The Samaritan agents kind of suck, with the exception of Martine. I love that everyone who gets kneecapped just lies on the ground and practically falls asleep as if they're not still able to use their guns. I get that you can't walk and it's tremendously painful, but the blood loss wouldn't render you useless that quickly. You'd still be able to shoot.

The awesome electronic music for the main gunfight scene was Fortune Days by The Glitch Mob in case anyone's interested. This show has the best use of music. I made an iTunes playlist of all the songs featured on the show.

In a just world this show would be raking in the Emmy's and Golden Globes and be higher rated, but oh well. It's still the best show on TV right now, IMO.

 

[DWF]

While the references and Machine styled dialogue was nice, it really felt like they're trying to stretch a two parter into a thrilogy. And strangely enough it alittle out of character for Finch and even Reese to trust the Machine to get them out of this. It's also alittle to hard to imagine that Fusco is still in the dark about the Machine at this point.

 

[Christopher]

For instance, on the subtle side, the Degas artwork was a meta-reference to the events of the episode. It's called "Dancer Adjusting Her Slipper" and was one of numerous drawings Degas made of dancers adjusting their shoes, drawings which he himself made from different poses and angles until he got it right, and used as practice for the many ballet paintings he would later do. So it's like the Machine going through multiple practice runs trying to create a finished work to get Her team out alive.

Fascinating. Nice catch.

The flashbacks to Finch teaching the Machine chess, and the lesson Harold attached to it about why he dislikes chess was fascinating and perfectly matched to the events of the episode.

Yes -- and it counterpoints the scenes of Greer overtly treating the whole thing as a chess game. By the morality that Harold taught to the Machine, Greer deserves to lose, and She's diligently working to achieve that defeat -- and is doing so by looking for strategies that minimize the sacrifice of her team members. And Shaw's unpredicted arrival at the end shows that there are limits to what even ASIs can predict, a little humanistic touch there -- although it still comes at a severe cost.

I love that everyone who gets kneecapped just lies on the ground and practically falls asleep as if they're not still able to use their guns. I get that you can't walk and it's tremendously painful, but the blood loss wouldn't render you useless that quickly. You'd still be able to shoot.

Would you? I'd think the shock and pain of a gunshot wound would cause a lot of people to pass out, or at least be incapacitated.


By the way, why is this thread in TV & Media? There was a time when PoI's science fiction content was subtle enough that it could be mistaken for a non-genre show, but now it's overtly about a war between sapient artificial intelligences for the fate of the world, and that's a hardcore science fiction storyline.

 

[Aragorn]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVNyt6-59PQ[/yt]

 

[Christopher]

Hold everything... I just realized something. This episode reveals that the Machine's simulations play out as detailed, realistic scenes indistinguishable from real life (or at least from a TV show's version thereof). All this time, we've been assuming that we were only occasionally getting Machine's-eye views interspersed with scenes of reality, often set in places where there was no direct surveillance (particularly in flashbacks to years past). But what if everything we thought was a real scene experienced outside of the Machine's POV was actually the Machine's accurate simulation of events? What if this entire series is actually taking place inside the Machine's, or Samaritan's, head? I mean, the events are really happening, but all of it is experienced from the Machine's or Samaritan's POV, either as directly watched through a camera or as reconstructed/simulated in its mind.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I love that everyone who gets kneecapped just lies on the ground and practically falls asleep as if they're not still able to use their guns. I get that you can't walk and it's tremendously painful, but the blood loss wouldn't render you useless that quickly. You'd still be able to shoot.

Would you? I'd think the shock and pain of a gunshot wound would cause a lot of people to pass out, or at least be incapacitated.

Well, I don't know, I've never been shot before. Had a gun pointed at me a couple times, but never shot. I'm also not a trained special forces operator, which I'm sure is what most of the PMCs that Samaritan recruited used to be. They're a bit more rugged than most.

But people are remarkably resilient, especially in a shootout when their adrenaline is pumping.

1986 FBI Miami Shootout:

Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzi's car. McNeill fired over the hood of Manauzzi's car but was wounded by return fire from Platt's Ruger Mini-14 rifle. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound.[8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. Due to collision damage, Matix could only open his door partially, and fired one shotgun round at Grogan and Dove, striking their vehicle. Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan.[10] McNeill returned fire with six shots from his revolver, hitting Matix with two rounds in the head and neck. Matix was apparently knocked unconscious by the hits and fired no more rounds.[11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolver's chambers, could not reload.[8]

As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platt’s right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platt’s eventual death.[12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove.[13]

Platt took up position by the passenger side front fender of the Cutlass. He fired a .357 Magnum revolver at agents Ronald Risner and Gilbert Orrantia, and was shot a fourth time when turning to fire at Hanlon, Dove and Grogan. The bullet, fired by Orrantia's revolver, penetrated Platt's right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. This wound caused Platt to drop his revolver.[14] It is estimated that Platt was shot a fifth time shortly afterwards, this time by Risner. The bullet penetrated Platt's right upper arm, exited below the armpit and entered his torso, stopping below his shoulder blade. The wound was not serious.[15]

Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantia's position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullet's passage, and two rounds at McNeill. One round hit McNeill in the neck, causing him to collapse and leaving him paralyzed for several hours. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand.[16]

Dove's 9 mm semi auto pistol was rendered inoperative after being hit by one of Platt's bullets. Hanlon fired at Platt and was shot in the hand while reloading. Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the driver’s side of their car. Both were preoccupied with getting Dove's gun working and did not detect that Platt was aggressively advancing upon them. Platt rounded the rear of their car and killed Grogan with a shot to the chest, shot Hanlon in the groin area, and then killed Dove with two shots to the head. Platt then entered the Grogan/Dove car in an apparent attempt to flee the scene.[17] As Platt entered Grogan and Dove's car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet.[8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither.[18]

Around this time, Metro-Dade police officers Rick Frye, Leonard Figueroa and Martin Heckman arrived. Heckman covered McNeill's paralyzed body with his own.[19] Frye assisted Hanlon.[20]

Platt's actions at this moment in the fight have been debated. A civilian witness described Platt leaving the car, walking almost 20 feet and firing at Mireles three times at close range. Mireles does not remember this happening. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. Risner and Orrantia, observing from the other side of the street, stated that they did not see Platt leave the car and fire at Mireles.[21] However, it is known for certain that Platt pulled Matix's Dan Wesson revolver at some point and fired three rounds.[16][22]

Platt attempted to start the Grogan/Dove car. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. Mireles fired six rounds at the suspects. The first round missed, hitting the back of the front seat. The second hit the driver's side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. The third hit Matix in the face, and fragmented in two, with neither piece causing a serious wound. The fourth hit Matix in the face next to his right eye socket, travelled downward through the facial bones, into the neck, where it entered the spinal column and severed the spinal cord. The fifth hit Matix in the face, penetrated the jaw bone and neck and came to rest by the spinal column.[23] Mireles reached the driver's side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. The bullet penetrated Platt's chest and bruised the spinal cord, ending the gunfight.[24]

The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (his firearm was thrown from car in the initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged.[8][25]

Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths.[26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

1997 North Hollywood Bank Robbery:

After several seconds he continued firing. At least one SWAT officer fired his AR-15 below the cars and wounded Mătăsăreanu in his unprotected lower legs; he was soon unable to continue and put his hands up to show surrender.[15]

Seconds after his defeat, officers swarmed him to pin him down. As he was being cuffed, SWAT officers asked for his name, to which he replied "Pete". When asked if there were any more suspects, he reportedly retorted "Fuck you! Shoot me in the head!".[27] The police radioed for an ambulance, but Mătăsăreanu, loudly swearing profusely and still goading the police to shoot him, died before the ambulance could reach the scene almost seventy minutes later. Later reports showed that Mătăsăreanu was shot over 20 times in the legs and died from trauma due to excessive blood loss coming from two gunshot wounds in his left thigh.[28]

Each robber was shot and penetrated by at least ten bullets, yet both were able to continue shooting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Soldier wounded twice in the leg in Afghanistan but kept fighting:

According to Robert Croxdale, his son and his unit were in a small arms fire fight when Travis was hit at least once in the leg. He says his son also sustained shrapnel wounds, but kept fighting until shock set in.

"He said 'I've still got my fingers and toes. I'm still breathing. I'm still alive. I've just got two holes in my leg,'" said Robert.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/28...ier-in-Afghanistan-shot-in-leg-keeps-fighting

Operation Red Wing in Afghanistan 2005, depicted in the film Lone Survivor (if you haven't seen it, the SEALs kept fighting despite numerous grievous wounds and injuries):

Did the soldiers really jump off the cliffs?

Yes. According to the Lone Survivor true story, Marcus Luttrell and his three fellow comrades of SEAL Team 10 were left with no choice but to jump off the cliffs, making leaps of 20 to 30 feet in order to evade the pursuing Taliban fighters, as shown in the movie. -Navy.mil

What were the extent of Marcus Luttrell's injuries?

The real Marcus Luttrell answered this question during an interview with AOL/Moviefone. "I had to have my hand reconstructed. My back's been reconstructed. Multiple back surgeries. My knees are blown out, my pelvis is cracked, I had maxillofacial damage, I bit my tongue in half... you want me to keep goin'? ... I got shot-fragged by RPGs and grenades, eleven through-and-throughs in my quads and calves, shrapnel stickin' out of my legs and everywhere. All the skin off my back and the back of my legs was gone."

Luttrell also suffered a torn shoulder, a broken nose, and is still dealing with the effects of the bacteria that was in the water that he ingested as he tried to quench his severe thirst while struggling to survive (Ed Young Interview). He was also shot in the back the following day, which is not shown in the movie (The Daily Beast).

http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/lone-survivor.php

By the way, why is this thread in TV & Media? There was a time when PoI's science fiction content was subtle enough that it could be mistaken for a non-genre show, but now it's overtly about a war between sapient artificial intelligences for the fate of the world, and that's a hardcore science fiction storyline.

I've often thought the same, but just figured since this is where the thread has always been people are used to it here, so I didn't bother saying anything. I'll hit notify on the thread and ask the mod of this forum move it over to SF&F, and to leave a redirect so people know it's been moved.

 

[Aragorn]

The Samaritan agents kind of suck, with the exception of Martine. I love that everyone who gets kneecapped just lies on the ground and practically falls asleep as if they're not still able to use their guns. I get that you can't walk and it's tremendously painful, but the blood loss wouldn't render you useless that quickly. You'd still be able to shoot.

It's TV short hand, sort of like how stepping on a cell phone is enough to destroy it and render the data unrecoverable. This is still CBS, after all.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Hold everything... I just realized something. This episode reveals that the Machine's simulations play out as detailed, realistic scenes indistinguishable from real life (or at least from a TV show's version thereof). All this time, we've been assuming that we were only occasionally getting Machine's-eye views interspersed with scenes of reality, often set in places where there was no direct surveillance (particularly in flashbacks to years past). But what if everything we thought was a real scene experienced outside of the Machine's POV was actually the Machine's accurate simulation of events? What if this entire series is actually taking place inside the Machine's, or Samaritan's, head? I mean, the events are really happening, but all of it is experienced from the Machine's or Samaritan's POV, either as directly watched through a camera or as reconstructed/simulated in its mind.

During the episode I jokingly wondered if the series would end with the Machine being the AI equivalent of Tommy Westphall, and everything was one huge training simulation to develop its sense of ethics and morality.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Damn, damn, damn.

Shaw is by far my favorite character (and not just because I've adored Sarah Shahi since Life). I really hope she's not actually dead. As Shahi said in the above linked interview, someone isn't dead until you see the body (and we didn't see the kill shot). I had no idea Shahi was pregnant, and had I known that last month when we were making our predictions, I would've said she was the one to bite the bullet from the the get go. I hope her and her husband the best for the impending twins, but I hope she's not gone for too long if she does come back.

That being said, I still wanted Reese to die.

Hold everything... I just realized something. This episode reveals that the Machine's simulations play out as detailed, realistic scenes indistinguishable from real life (or at least from a TV show's version thereof). All this time, we've been assuming that we were only occasionally getting Machine's-eye views interspersed with scenes of reality, often set in places where there was no direct surveillance (particularly in flashbacks to years past). But what if everything we thought was a real scene experienced outside of the Machine's POV was actually the Machine's accurate simulation of events? What if this entire series is actually taking place inside the Machine's, or Samaritan's, head? I mean, the events are really happening, but all of it is experienced from the Machine's or Samaritan's POV, either as directly watched through a camera or as reconstructed/simulated in its mind.

Woah. You just blew my mind. I want this to be true.

 

[DWF]

Hold everything... I just realized something. This episode reveals that the Machine's simulations play out as detailed, realistic scenes indistinguishable from real life (or at least from a TV show's version thereof). All this time, we've been assuming that we were only occasionally getting Machine's-eye views interspersed with scenes of reality, often set in places where there was no direct surveillance (particularly in flashbacks to years past). But what if everything we thought was a real scene experienced outside of the Machine's POV was actually the Machine's accurate simulation of events? What if this entire series is actually taking place inside the Machine's, or Samaritan's, head? I mean, the events are really happening, but all of it is experienced from the Machine's or Samaritan's POV, either as directly watched through a camera or as reconstructed/simulated in its mind.

During the episode I jokingly wondered if the series would end with the Machine being the AI equivalent of Tommy Westphall, and everything was one huge training simulation to develop its sense of ethics and morality.

You better hope Richard Belzer doesn't show up as Munch then.

 

[JD]

This was a great episode. I thought all of the simulations were a cool way of getting to see how the Machine's "mind" works. The simplified simulation was hilarious. The flashbacks were a nice look at her and Finch's early days, and also tied into the present day events really well.
I loved Shaw's arrival, and of course we got the kiss...
I'm really disapointed that they might have killed off Shaw. I'm hoping she does come back. I'm not sure about the EW interview, but I did read one Shahi did with TVLine, and it did sound like she's not sure yet if she'll be back. I'm hoping that was just her trying to keep from spoiling her big return, but it did seem like an honest answer.

 

[Christopher]

The simplified simulation was hilarious.

I almost wish they'd done it in low-resolution CGI. But that wouldn't have been as much fun as watching the actors perform the generic dialogue.

 

[DWF]

Hold everything... I just realized something. This episode reveals that the Machine's simulations play out as detailed, realistic scenes indistinguishable from real life (or at least from a TV show's version thereof). All this time, we've been assuming that we were only occasionally getting Machine's-eye views interspersed with scenes of reality, often set in places where there was no direct surveillance (particularly in flashbacks to years past). But what if everything we thought was a real scene experienced outside of the Machine's POV was actually the Machine's accurate simulation of events? What if this entire series is actually taking place inside the Machine's, or Samaritan's, head? I mean, the events are really happening, but all of it is experienced from the Machine's or Samaritan's POV, either as directly watched through a camera or as reconstructed/simulated in its mind.

This is in actually a cop-out and it fails to recognize actions the Machine can't account for and any Samaritan only recognizes threats if a person isn't seen a threat it ignores them.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Great review of the episode, Locutus. (Cool avatar, too)

This show did what I would've imagined impossible: Person of Interest made a Groundhog Day episode and it fit perfectly into the series' universe and format. It gave us some fine character moments, likely the funniest scene in PoI history, a nice bit of business with the fate of the painting, Finch's fascinating lesson about chess, and capped off with the poignant sacrifice of a much-beloved character.

Just an unrelentingly brilliant hour of television.

 

[DWF]

I started watching the second season on DVD and it's interesting that the chess flashbacks were in 2003 the same year the Machine helped out Finch at a blackjack table. You'd think the Machine would've learned Finch's lesson without the chess game depending on which flashback happened first.