A bit of conjecture, but . . .
Peregrine class
- Thread starter Bill Morris
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Nice!
This is very good. It's pretty much how I envision this fighter too. Were you putting it at 80 feet? Do the dimensions given follow the folding-wings idea? My schematics have the ship as slightly wider than it is long, and more like 8 meters in height at that length.
I don't know if it was shown launching microtorps, but the microtorp launcher seems reasonable either way. The only thing I am not sure about is the chin phaser being labeled "pulse phaser cannon." I believe that one was shown firing conventional phaser beams. The pulse phaser-like bolts seemed to be emerging from paired wing locations.
I don't know if it was shown launching microtorps, but the microtorp launcher seems reasonable either way. The only thing I am not sure about is the chin phaser being labeled "pulse phaser cannon." I believe that one was shown firing conventional phaser beams. The pulse phaser-like bolts seemed to be emerging from paired wing locations.
One useful reference was this. That's where I got the dimensions and mass. EAS puts it at about 25 meters on one page and less than 30 on another.
This gives dimensions in both feet and meters, and pretty much agrees with the EAS estimate.
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/SF-Conversions/Rifts-Trek-Ships/Federation_Peregrine.htm
I also downloaded as many photos as I could find, looking for clues. EAS has three nice shots of the filming model at Christies, here, and you can see the microtorp launcher.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/fedshuttles2.htm
Of course, the pulse phaser cannon is a tiny version, nothing like those on the Defiant.
This gives dimensions in both feet and meters, and pretty much agrees with the EAS estimate.
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/SF-Conversions/Rifts-Trek-Ships/Federation_Peregrine.htm
I also downloaded as many photos as I could find, looking for clues. EAS has three nice shots of the filming model at Christies, here, and you can see the microtorp launcher.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/fedshuttles2.htm
Of course, the pulse phaser cannon is a tiny version, nothing like those on the Defiant.
It would be nice to see a decent ventral shot some day...
I'm still uncertain about that prominent bow dish that we see on the Christie's model. It doesn't seem to be part of the CGI version, but I've recently been shown that it was indeed part of the "Maquis pt II" models. It never glows, so I wouldn't like to call it a deflector - it could rather be a torpedo launcher, perhaps for torps slightly smaller than the starship ones but larger than the microtorps. Minitorps, anyone?
Going by classic fighterplane analogues, the nose phaser could be mainly for self-defense against other fighters, while the serious weapons for hurting the intended target would be the torpedoes and the wing phasers. Those are what Cal Hudson uses when the velvet gloves come off, after all.
The wings don't have suitable greeblies for weapon muzzles: Hudson's bolts come from much farther inboard than the trio of things on the outer wings. But there are greeblies just outboard of the warp cowling front ends (and possible ramscoops) that could be point emitters for powerful phasers, much in the style of the stub wings of the runabouts. Here's what I mean:
The claim that the thing you call the top of the warp core could be another phaser emitter is based solely on the idea of imitating WWII fighterplanes. This greeblie would match the bow one for full self-defense coverage. I'd sort of like to believe in four warp cores, one under each of those roundels on the transverse block that goes from just behind the cabin to the warp cowlings...
Timo Saloniemi
I'm still uncertain about that prominent bow dish that we see on the Christie's model. It doesn't seem to be part of the CGI version, but I've recently been shown that it was indeed part of the "Maquis pt II" models. It never glows, so I wouldn't like to call it a deflector - it could rather be a torpedo launcher, perhaps for torps slightly smaller than the starship ones but larger than the microtorps. Minitorps, anyone?
Going by classic fighterplane analogues, the nose phaser could be mainly for self-defense against other fighters, while the serious weapons for hurting the intended target would be the torpedoes and the wing phasers. Those are what Cal Hudson uses when the velvet gloves come off, after all.
The wings don't have suitable greeblies for weapon muzzles: Hudson's bolts come from much farther inboard than the trio of things on the outer wings. But there are greeblies just outboard of the warp cowling front ends (and possible ramscoops) that could be point emitters for powerful phasers, much in the style of the stub wings of the runabouts. Here's what I mean:
The claim that the thing you call the top of the warp core could be another phaser emitter is based solely on the idea of imitating WWII fighterplanes. This greeblie would match the bow one for full self-defense coverage. I'd sort of like to believe in four warp cores, one under each of those roundels on the transverse block that goes from just behind the cabin to the warp cowlings...
Timo Saloniemi
Okay, four warp cores it is. I'll move that down in the figure and update the label. That also makes the aft section more spacious. The partition and escape hatch can stay put.
Okay, the phase canon beneath the nose is not a pulse canon. And it swivels. We saw it fire about 170 mark 30 at the Orinoco and blow the pod off. I'll change that label. If there are any miniature pulse canons, I don't know where they are.
The microtopedo launcher seemed to swivel a bit in DS9: The Maquis Part II, after which the copilot told Cal Hudson they were out of topedos. So that should be okay in the figure. The phaser strips like the ones on the Danube class are obvious on the model, but I normally don't show those on an MSD-style cutaway.
The deflector? It seems obvious enough on the model. And you can't do warp without one.
What about those full-sized photon torpedoes shown in the figure, to be ejected while flying toward a capital ship just before changing to an escape course? Okay?
Okay, the phase canon beneath the nose is not a pulse canon. And it swivels. We saw it fire about 170 mark 30 at the Orinoco and blow the pod off. I'll change that label. If there are any miniature pulse canons, I don't know where they are.
The microtopedo launcher seemed to swivel a bit in DS9: The Maquis Part II, after which the copilot told Cal Hudson they were out of topedos. So that should be okay in the figure. The phaser strips like the ones on the Danube class are obvious on the model, but I normally don't show those on an MSD-style cutaway.
The deflector? It seems obvious enough on the model. And you can't do warp without one.
What about those full-sized photon torpedoes shown in the figure, to be ejected while flying toward a capital ship just before changing to an escape course? Okay?
Well, the runabout doesn't have an obvious glowing deflector, either - nor do most shuttles. So the deflector could be the round thing on lower bow, or the grillework on upper bow for all we know.
There are phaser strips on the model? Where?
I don't know if the full-sized torps are really necessary - the paired bolts seen on the Starfleet craft could be from phasers if we don't want drop bays. OTOH, I doubt Hudson's torps were as tiny as those "micro" ones purported for the runabout, or he wouldn't have run out after just five. We'd need a good view of the underbelly to get a better grip of its features...
Timo Saloniemi
There are phaser strips on the model? Where?
I don't know if the full-sized torps are really necessary - the paired bolts seen on the Starfleet craft could be from phasers if we don't want drop bays. OTOH, I doubt Hudson's torps were as tiny as those "micro" ones purported for the runabout, or he wouldn't have run out after just five. We'd need a good view of the underbelly to get a better grip of its features...
Timo Saloniemi
Okay, I was wrong. Those aren't phaser strips; they're the things that light up in blue. I'll learn what they're called when I grow up, but I don't need to show them on this schematic.
I changed the warp cores, made "microtorpedo" "minitorpedo," made the forward cannon just a phaser cannon, and added and labeled one facing aft above and between the warp cores.
But I kept the standard torps, to make sure these things are still a threat to capital ships without going kamikaze.
Here's the updated version:
http://lcars24.com/schem31.html
As for screencaps as clues about the torpedoes, this is what we have:
I changed the warp cores, made "microtorpedo" "minitorpedo," made the forward cannon just a phaser cannon, and added and labeled one facing aft above and between the warp cores.
But I kept the standard torps, to make sure these things are still a threat to capital ships without going kamikaze.
Here's the updated version:
http://lcars24.com/schem31.html
As for screencaps as clues about the torpedoes, this is what we have:
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Regarding the mass figure, less than one-sixth the mass of a runabout, to which it is similarly sized, doesn't seem right to me at all. It's more spindly than the runabout, but almost certainly more of that is solid, and the warp coils are probably quite similar between the two ships.
As I pointed out in another thread, the circular greeble on the front of the nose appears to be a photon torpedo launcher... full sized, not micro. I actually doubt the Peregrine actually has or needs a navigational deflector.
I was surprised at the figure of 25 M.T. when I looked it up. What's a reasonable mass figure, given the dimensions shown above?
Reference:
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/SF-Conversions/Rifts-Trek-Ships/Federation_Peregrine.htm
Well, I could squeeze that in, but photon torpedoes are not basically cylindrical, and when Cal Hudson's fighter fired torpedoes in DS9: The Maquis Part II they came from below the cockpit somewhere, and only blew the pod off the Oninoco and damaged the navigational array. Sure, a full-sized torp can be set for low yield, but . . .
I think you're remembering wrong. The screencaps I posted in the other thread show them coming from the tip of the nose. They couldn't be coming from beneath the cockpit because the angles are all wrong; the ship is turning as it fires and the flash of the torpedo launch appears on the nose all three times. There is no "swivel" action in the episode either because the actual model has no moving parts; even the phaser cannon on the nose never actually moves, even when firing at a target BEHIND the fighter.
Definately remembering wrong. That was a phaser blast, not a torpedo.
Also, re-watching that scene, I see that Hudson's fighter didn't run out of torpedoes. Sisko nailed him in the nose with a phaser blast and THAT disabled out the torpedo tubes (He says "tubes," plural, which might mean that the ship has an aft torpedo launcher fed from the same magazine). Again, I am about 100% certain that circular feature is a photon torpedo tube--not micro, not mini, but full-sized photon. The space in front of the cockpit is certainly large enough to house a small magazine of torpedoes.
Okay, newtype_alpha, I looked again. You're right. I'll change it. Thanks for the input.
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As for the dimensions: by the image you have got right there, if it is 24.4 meters long, it is 7.95-8 meters high.
Checking both my pictures of the model and the CGI-derived schematics, they both indicate this ship is slightly wider than it is long, at least with the wings in the only position in which we've ever seen them. Based on the the 24.4 meter length and rounded to the nearest hundredth, I got 24.84 meters for the beam.
I think 147 metric tons seems okay. Is 147 instead of 150 just a
I had actually at first wondered if it might not even have a few tons on the runabout due to the fact that the runabout is quite spacious inside and the fighter isn't, but if it's got room for a number of full-size torpedoes in there and the aft compartment probably sleeps two and so forth, a shade less than the runabout seems about right.
There's also a typo on "Deuteruium Storage" (but you probably knew that already)
Checking both my pictures of the model and the CGI-derived schematics, they both indicate this ship is slightly wider than it is long, at least with the wings in the only position in which we've ever seen them. Based on the the 24.4 meter length and rounded to the nearest hundredth, I got 24.84 meters for the beam.
I think 147 metric tons seems okay. Is 147 instead of 150 just a
I had actually at first wondered if it might not even have a few tons on the runabout due to the fact that the runabout is quite spacious inside and the fighter isn't, but if it's got room for a number of full-size torpedoes in there and the aft compartment probably sleeps two and so forth, a shade less than the runabout seems about right.
There's also a typo on "Deuteruium Storage" (but you probably knew that already)
Thanks again for the help, JNG. I should have measured Adam Heinbuch's drawings before even getting started. I just did, and they come out almost the same as your figures. Here's a new round of corrections, using your figures, fixing the typo you spotted, and resizing the torpedoes, launcher, and seat again. And yes, I do tend to "round off" to 47 a lot.
Given that there seem to be two versions of the craft - model and CGI - I might suggest that there are also two versions of the interior, for two different battlefield roles.
One would have the bow torpedo launcher, with ample magazines for minitorps (say, 1/3 length torpedoes), and would dedicate the belly bays for ground ordnance. This would be the model operated by the Maquis, and perhaps also preferred by them.
Another model would omit the bow launcher and fill the bow spaces with fire control equipment with which to control the full-sized torps that could be launched in pairs from the ventral bays. This would be the model seen in "Sacrifice of Angels", firing either one or two pairs of glowy projectiles.
Looking at the screencap from "The Maquis", at the centerline of the underbelly, there seems to be a paired phaser bank! Look at the familiar side-by-side dimples... Perhaps this is one of the Maquis jury-rigs - this is where the Type 8 phasers of "Preemptive Strike" fame might have been welded on.
Timo Saloniemi
One would have the bow torpedo launcher, with ample magazines for minitorps (say, 1/3 length torpedoes), and would dedicate the belly bays for ground ordnance. This would be the model operated by the Maquis, and perhaps also preferred by them.
Another model would omit the bow launcher and fill the bow spaces with fire control equipment with which to control the full-sized torps that could be launched in pairs from the ventral bays. This would be the model seen in "Sacrifice of Angels", firing either one or two pairs of glowy projectiles.
Looking at the screencap from "The Maquis", at the centerline of the underbelly, there seems to be a paired phaser bank! Look at the familiar side-by-side dimples... Perhaps this is one of the Maquis jury-rigs - this is where the Type 8 phasers of "Preemptive Strike" fame might have been welded on.
Timo Saloniemi
