People of Color and the Future
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Shiwam Khan was one of four recurring Shadow villains, two of whom were American, and the other was (I think) from the Caribbean.[/quote]
Add the Mandarin and Fing Fang Foom from "Iron Man," both "orientalized villains" to that list while you are at it.
The only time I ever saw a modern westernized Asian male treated like an equal in a caucasian film production was in Jean-Jacques Annaud's The Lover (1992) with Tony Leung and Jane March.
The rest of the time, it is the same old waiter and kung fu caricatures like Mr. Miyagi that permeate the theater screens and the airwaves post-Sessue Hayakawa of 1920's Hollywood.
[/quote]Captain Sulu and Ensign Kim don't count?
This is true. It's worth noting that Star Trek population proportions roughly match those seen in the United States. Far fewer persons in this country are non-"white" than is generally thought. Of a representative sample of ten Americans, 8 would be "white," 1 of African extraction, and 1 of African, East Asian, mixed race, or other extraction. Despite their low prevalence in media, non-"white" persons are, if anything, over-represented in media in comparison with their proportions of the population.[/quote]
Strangely, in checking the above numbers, I see that the reported demographics of the US changed somewhat between the 2000 census and 2005 semi-census. Those persons who reported themselves as "some other race" were required to allocated themselves to one of the other groups, and they appear to have done so relatively in proportion with the population. Those persons reporting themselves as multiracial have also declined in number, mostly reporting their race as African or Asian.
Good Will Riker
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This is a legitimate discussion on "People of Color and the Future."
The OP made this thread, and like any free citizen of a democratic nation I myself am expressing my right and opinion to voice my views on this very relevant social issue.
Sanford and Son, The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, and The Jeffersons were all hugely successful shows. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but I honestly think very few people (white or black) care what colour the cast is in a TV show.
I'm talking as an admin, not the forum mod. Your behavior in general has gotten particularly tiresome lately, and so I'm telling you officially to dial it back.
You can discuss the issue in a civil manner.
Good Will Riker
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Captain Sulu and Ensign Kim do count as supporting characters, but in terms of the traditional male lead who is handsome, admired by women, and gets the girl in the end (or, in this case, from the beginning of the film.), Tony Leung is the only modern westernized Asian male lead that I have seen this happen in a caucasian film production in The Lover (1992), which usually goes to someone like Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson., and George Clooney.
I got it.
Thanks.
Generally media reflects it's audience. Most of the people in the US are white, so most of it's media is white. It's kind of like if you look a Korean tv show, most of the actors are
KOREAN!
Movies exist to make money, and the largest single target demographic is white people. People tend to gravitate toward things that are similar to themselves and that they can relate to. It's that simple, there is no racial conspiracy. If half the white people turned Asian tomorrow all the movies would feature Asian people. Asians make up a tiny minority of the population, dwarfed by Hispanics and Blacks. Something like 5%, mostly concentrated in areas of New York, California and Hawaii. The number of active TV and moviegoers would be even smaller. And it's not that white people won't watch people of other racial backgrounds on TV, they just like "comfortable". The Cosby Show and Fresh Prince? Funny as hell, great TV. Bernie Mack's show did well. But you have to admit that most "all black", throwaway WB/UPN bullshit comedies are simply bad, and they tend to pander to racial stereotypes that make white viewers uncomfortable.
What do you think of Harold and Kumar? Americanized enough for you or does their heavy drug use invalidate their entry?
How often do Caucasians star in Asian cinema? That crappy movie Dragon Wars has a mostly American cast. For that matter, why do you care so much about what Hollywood does when Asian cinema is so readily available to you? Is it that big a deal that Brad Pit's mom wasn't born in Thailand?
I do agree that in the past the typical Asian was often stereotyped and villianized in "white Hollywood", but not always, and I don't think you have anything to compare to blacks in hollywood. At least your guys kicked some ass, blacks just served lunch and spoke poorly.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
As I grew up in Orange County, California and my media choices have been the same as any other American who grew up and lived through the 80's, 90's, 00's (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, MTV, VH-1, E! Channel, etc.), I honestly have not watched much Korean television while growing up or even currently.Generally media reflects it's audience. Most of the people in the US are white, so most of it's media is white. It's kind of like if you look a Korean tv show, most of the actors are
If you have, congratulations.
I actually liked seeing a fellow Korean American, as well as an Indian American, in lead roles in those 2 films.
For example, you know how those 2 douchebags at the beginning of the film unloaded their work on the character of Harold Lee for the weekend while they went out and partied?
That is real office politics in America.
If you didn't pick that up from the film, in all honesty, go ahead and use those 2 films as "more ammunition" for your anglocized cause.
I am American raised in Orange County, California.
Since I was raised, went to school, work, and pay taxes in the United States of America, I would like to see more representation of Americans like myself who happen to be of Asian descent (Like the way there are Americans of German descent, Americans of Irish descent, Americans of English descent, Americans of Italian descent, and Americans of Mexican descent, etc.) represented more in feature films and television shows produced in Hollywood, in non-stereotypical fashion. Like a lead character who saves the day and gets the girl like James Bond or Captain Kirk. Or a character like Maverick in Top Gun. Like that, instead of the usual, bland Jet Li kung fu crap like Unleashed or Romeo Must Die.
Those Asians in Asia have nothing to do with me. I do not know what their upbringing was like, their politics, or their lifestyle.
Give me a break. I am American just like you -- incidentally, I am not into a lot of Asianic things because I grew up in "white America" just like you, with mostly white friends throughout grade school and watching/listening/reading American films/TV, radio/music, and books -- but based purely on the epicanthic folds of my brown eyes you have to stick me into an ethnic pigeonhole?
What's next? Since Martin Sheen's birth name is Ramon Estevez, by your casual cultural observations, does he and his children like Emilio Estevez and Charlie Sheen have to go run a taco stand now?
Emilio Estevez has a latino name, but he is American just like everyone else. I myself have an English first name and a Korean surname, and I am just as American as him and everyone else who were born and raised in the United States.
How blatantly ignorant of you.I do agree that in the past the typical Asian was often stereotyped and villianized in "white Hollywood", but not always, and I don't think you have anything to compare to blacks in hollywood. At least your guys kicked some ass, blacks just served lunch and spoke poorly.
If that is supposed to be some sort of veiled racism, then I will accept it as such.
When you take "white" "black" "Asian" and "latino" out of white American, black American, Asian American, and latino American, then what do you end up with? An American.
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Because white people watch Star Trek. And you obviously have never watched DS9.
The depiction of non-whites in sci fi on TV and movies follows lockstep with the demographic makeup of the audience. There's only one color that counts: green.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
DS9's "Far Beyond the Stars" sheds a light on why this is the case 60 years ago, and how its politics (and policies) still applies in today's mass media market.
Trek is also shown internationally to audiences where white people are the minority and the culture isn't Mid-Western America. If the cast of a Trek show is mostly white and Trek is meant to break down color barriers, then Trek has failed in it's job by that demographic.
If we can judge by readings and predictions according census, then most of the crew of any Starfleet ship should be Latino.
Uhh...more like that the actors (and especially minor/guest/extras) are white. How cost effective would it be, if you needed a bunch of extras, and an "alien" landscape (as opposed to the forests on Canada), to film somewhere like India or somewhere on the continent of Africa or East Asia?
Also -- the producers need to consciously want the diversity. I really feel Babylon 5 had a great diversity of actors as well as the roles themselves (culturally, personality).
If i had a gaziilion dollars...i would do a sequel to Independence Day, called "Memorial Day" , where we have a different society (i.e. a number of white people were wiped out, as they populated some of the major cities initially destroyed), so that Indians, Chinese & Africans were more of the population. (It would be called Memorial Day because the humans, which would include some white leadership, have turned into the invaders on other worlds...losing their moral compass, but regaining it on "Memorial Day").
With that thought...in general, the future population of earth should be far more diverse thn we're seeing on the screen.
A period drama set in Africa would be expected to have a majority of Africans on screen---and it would be noticed if the Africans don't get any lines in such flicks.
But the assumption that the future will be just like today is stupid. It's the kind of stupidity that makes you wonder why people like that want to make scifi, until you remember that people expect scifi to be stupid. Even more to the point, making the future as white as the audience is just as political a point as changing the skin colors in period dramas would be. Except that people miss it in scifi because they seem to turn their brains off.
But the assumption that the future will be just like today is stupid. It's the kind of stupidity that makes you wonder why people like that want to make scifi, until you remember that people expect scifi to be stupid. Even more to the point, making the future as white as the audience is just as political a point as changing the skin colors in period dramas would be. Except that people miss it in scifi because they seem to turn their brains off.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
Speaking of period films, it is funny how the Hollywood western film genre is as far out of this world and should be in the realm of pure fantasy considering most cowboys that encompassed "the wild west" of the 19th century were actually blacks and Mexicans.
This also reminds me of another American period film set in the 1990's about a group of MIT students who learned to count cards and win big money at Las Vegas blackjack tables. The thing is that, the real life story that this film is based on comprised of Asian American MIT students, but Hollywood rewrote the script and took "dramatic liberties" by recasting the major roles portrayed by 2 caucasian actors (One of whom wasn't even American, I might add.). The film: 21 starring Kevin Spacey, Laurence Fishburne, and Kate Bosworth. Interestingly, the Asian American MIT student named Jeff Ma who this story is based off of plays a minor role as a black jack dealer in the film where the main character portrayed by that English actor calls him "Hey, my brother from another mother."
It appears as though way too many interesting things get "-washed" by the time they get greenlit in Hollywood by "90210-izing" it in the mass media.
Here is what the late-Marlon Brando, the legendary actor who championed the civil rights of blacks, Native Americans, and Jews during the 1960's had to say about this topic years ago in "Playboy" and on "Larry King Live":
"Marlon Brando quotes" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_Brando#Accusation_of_Jewish_stereotyping
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Nobody seemed to mind the depiction of Africans in Out Of Africa, though, which is just the period drama set in Africa that doesn't have a lot of Africans on screen--certainly not as long as either of the white leads.
Honestly, I don't see Barack Obama's election as being a defining racial moment in this country. His campaign hardly made race an issue until J. Wright hit, and certainly wasn't ever focused on it for more than a few seconds. He won because he was up against a dramatically older candidate who nominated a vice president who was both incompetent and female (and like it or not, the latter characteristic is likely to affect white male voters in this country) in a time when eight years of George W. Bush have made the Republican Party drastically unpopular. I just don't see this as such a defining moment as the OP suggests. But that is, perhaps, my deeply engrained cynicism setting in.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
To certain white Americans who do not allow race to be the primary focus of political positions and issues and who consider the best qualified person for the job -- irregardless of race or gender -- should be commended.
However, the reality of the United States is that most non-caucasian Americans do not view society in such "color blind" terms.
Sure, the Greeks, the Italians (Sicilians), and white latinos get to fall under the "white" umbrella in the United States (Not sure about that in other countries, but they do in the United States.), but other non-caucasian ethnic races in the United States (blacks, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Middle Easterners, and chicano lations) do not view society in such "color blind" terms and would like to have voice, representation, and leadership positions in political office, corporations, military, mass media, and academia.
Having Barack Obama as the next President of the United States -- who is the son of a father of Kenyan descent and a mother of European descent -- is a triumph for all American people who have worked hard, made sacrifices and contributions throughout the centuries in making this the great nation that is known throughout the world today -- well, at least until George W. Bush stepped into office and "ruined the party."
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