From STII: TWoK:
Kirk: "There's a man I haven't seen in 15 years who wants to kill me. You show me a son who'd be happy to help him."
TOS S1 Space Seed happened in 2267.
2267+15 = 2282
Paul Wesley's incarnation of James T. Kirk
- Thread starter Caeruleus
- Start date
Kirk: "There's a man I haven't seen in 15 years who wants to kill me. You show me a son who'd be happy to help him."
TOS S1 Space Seed happened in 2267.
2267+15 = 2282
Nope. The bottle of Romulan Ale is labeled 2283.
It was never said onscreen what year "Space Seed" took place in, so it's all cool.
The Okudas did a tremendous amount of research and produced a wonderful chronology for Star Trek's faux history, but from the beginning they pointed out that a great deal of it was conjectural and that it all worked from certain reasonable but not unchallengeable assumptions and consequent judgment calls. The dates that anchor it are among the most important conjectural elements.
The Okudas did a tremendous amount of research and produced a wonderful chronology for Star Trek's faux history, but from the beginning they pointed out that a great deal of it was conjectural and that it all worked from certain reasonable but not unchallengeable assumptions and consequent judgment calls. The dates that anchor it are among the most important conjectural elements.
I thought that was the joke?Nope. The bottle of Romulan Ale is labeled 2283.
"It takes a while to ferment."
Yep, they pretty much stated in the Chronology’s introduction that they arbitrarily set TOS exactly 300 years in the future from the original air date and worked around that.
That’s how I always read that scene, Bones is acknowledging that it’s not too far from the bottling date, the same way you joke around with a friend with a bottle of cheap wine.
Plus, if it’s an “ale” you really only have 3-6 months after packaging before it would get funny.
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Which would place the movie after that. Plus, the promotional materials for Season 1 of TNG said it took place "78 years" after Kirk and Spock and we know that was established by season's end as 2364. Subtract 78 years and our last adventure with Kirk and Spock would be TVH in 2286.
So, yeah, TWOK, TSFS and TVH would all by necessity take place well after 2282.
So, yeah, TWOK, TSFS and TVH would all by necessity take place well after 2282.
But isn't the last adventure TUC?
I don't think Carol was ever angry at Kirk. She just knew that David would be better off with her, rather than risking his life in space with his dad. Carol knew that Kirk's destiny was Starfleet and did not resent him for that.
I mean, Kirk and Carol both knew that they would never marry, so they made the mutual agreement to have David stay with his mom. There was never any anger or bitterness, from either of them.
Now of course David was angry, but only because he thought Kirk killed all of their coworkers at Regula One.
TUC was released in 1991, five years after Paramount said that TNG took place "78 years after Kirk and Spock." It was not something for them to take into account.
Not in 1987.
Now I understand what you're saying. Thank you for clarifying!
I agree with your shaking canonista fist:If he was out of College by 2282 and working with mom on Genesis; He'd have tpo be at least 22 by 2382, but honesty I'd say anywhere from 23-25; and unless there's an on the screen show of his character bio with birthdate... >Shakes Canonista Fist<
KIRK: Where's Doctor Marcus?
DAVID: I'm Doctor Marcus!
It is Doctor David Marcus, so, most doctorates take another four years which should put David at ~26 (if just graduated) during TWOK pushing his birthdate prior to the current SNW timeline. A smart David may have advanced through school at an accelerated rate, so, he could be slightly younger, but we have no proof either way.DAVID: I'm Doctor Marcus!
Also, there's no on-screen canonical facts as to the exact year of TWOK, only that Bones gives Kirk a bottle of Romulan Ale with a 2283 date on it and it is 15 years after Space Seed said by both Kirk and Khan in two unrelated scenes. The TWOK movie was released in 1982 and Space Seed aired in 1967 (15 years apart which probably is where the script writer arrived at the 15 years lines).
My non-canonical assumptions:
- TOS and the TOS Movies are ~300 years in the future. (Unfortunately, TWOK and Space Seed both conflict with this assumption with the "two centuries" remarks in both suggesting it is ~230 years in the future...<shakes canonista fist, again.>)
- Pilot WNMHGB is pre-TOS Season One by about a year or so. (Based on filming dates).
- Starting TOS at exactly 300 years in the future, so, Season One starts in September of 2266 as my set point.
- 1000 Stardates equals one Earth year. (yah, yah, I know...)
- Season One of TOS, covers ~two years as evidenced by the on-screen Stardates.
- Space Seed occurs ~1800 Stardates or ~1.8 years after the start of the Season One; this puts Space Seed around July of 2268.
- +15 years after Space Seed puts TWOK in 2283.
- The date on the bottle confirms that the TWOK is near-ish 2283, give or take.
The Okuda's did wonderful research, and their contribution to Trek is without equal. However, they got this one wrong, although not intentionally. Nick Meyer was a bit all over the place in the original script and his later commentary; however, I think the Romulan Ale 2283 was the dumbest line in the film. They also used Generations to establish that Kirk "left Star Fleet" and met Antonia, and then returned two years later. Which again had its own issues, because how do you use the vintage on a bottle in Generations for the 2293 date to christen to the Enterprise-B, and ignore the one in TWOK? An even deeper rabbit hole is that I never agreed with that Generations date either. The 80's movies are all messed up.
Anyway, I would agree with most that Kirk/Marcus was prior to the events in SNW "now" happening. Most took Spock's foreknowledge of Carol Marcus in TWOK to mean that he knew her and thus Kirk during their youth. When in fact, he more logically was aware of her accolades as a ground breaking scientist, despite not knowing about top secret Genesis project.
PS: I felt like Wesley was finally given some dialogue that "sounded like Kirk," although still seems awfully restrained. It's Sam Kirk who has been written more Shatner-ish thus far. As I've lamented, Peck's Spock is ten light years off of how Nimoy played the character, but alas this is not the 1960's and television acting/writing has devolved IMO.
Anyway, I would agree with most that Kirk/Marcus was prior to the events in SNW "now" happening. Most took Spock's foreknowledge of Carol Marcus in TWOK to mean that he knew her and thus Kirk during their youth. When in fact, he more logically was aware of her accolades as a ground breaking scientist, despite not knowing about top secret Genesis project.
PS: I felt like Wesley was finally given some dialogue that "sounded like Kirk," although still seems awfully restrained. It's Sam Kirk who has been written more Shatner-ish thus far. As I've lamented, Peck's Spock is ten light years off of how Nimoy played the character, but alas this is not the 1960's and television acting/writing has devolved IMO.
Ya I find him very square. Reminds me of a primary school teacher or civil service admin worker.
He certainly wouldn't have been my casting choice
I often say 10 years when I mean 8/9/11/12. Irish people generally round stuff off and it's never 38 minutes past. Drives some of our European neighbours absolutely nuts.From STII: TWoK:
Kirk: "There's a man I haven't seen in 15 years who wants to kill me. You show me a son who'd be happy to help him."
TOS S1 Space Seed happened in 2267.
2267+15 = 2282
It was eighteen, not fifteen years. But it was just rounded down.
Well, Kirk IS a "stack of books with legs"...
Depends on the role.
I think its bad for this one.
I thought it was hip to be a square?
I don't know why this is bad. I know the slang term is as old as I am but if it's bad I don't know it well enough to know why.
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