Paul Wesley's incarnation of James T. Kirk

[shapeshifter]

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early. Try looking a little harder or removing your bias blinders?

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early Kirk.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early. Try looking a little harder or removing your bias blinders?

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early Kirk.

We literally have a story that shows us Kirk's personality at this exact moment of his life in Quality of Mercy. It's called Balance of Terror. The latter shows a man, whose life course has only slightly diverted from QoM, expressing doubts about his decisions. He literally says that he feels unable to be decisive, and he worries that his doubts are seeding concern in the crew. Shatner's Kirk was no older than Wesley's. Yet Pike was more of the Kirk we knew than the one we were presented with in this new episode.

 

[Kor]

My only problem with Wesley is he looks too much like Jim Carrey. And I'm not a Jim Carrey fan, so I have to work on getting past it.

You know, the guy playing Jesus Christ Superstar recently doesn't look anything like the guy who first played him...

Wesley didn't strike me as resembling Jim Carrey at all. On the other hand, I've finally gotten around to catching up on Disco season 3, and I thought Commissioner Vos on Trill looked a lot like Jim Carrey. I found it quite distracting.

Kor

 

[Mudd]

We literally have a story that shows us Kirk's personality at this exact moment of his life in Quality of Mercy.

That Kirk never had "this exact moment in his life." He'd had the responsibility of commanding a Constitution starship for some time; this guy hasn't. He'd made a number of challenging decisions this guy hasn't, at quite some personal emotional cost, such as deciding to kill his best friend. And so on, and so forth. This guy is not that guy.

 

[shapeshifter]

Yeah, that too.

We literally have a story that shows us Kirk's personality at this exact moment of his life in Quality of Mercy. It's called Balance of Terror. The latter shows a man, whose life course has only slightly diverted from QoM, expressing doubts about his decisions. He literally says that he feels unable to be decisive, and he worries that his doubts are seeding concern in the crew. Shatner's Kirk was no older than Wesley's. Yet Pike was more of the Kirk we knew than the one we were presented with in this new episode.

Okay. Did the events really occur or were they only in Pike's mind?

If these events really happened then ok, it isn't well represented. But if it is just a crystal induced vision then it works for me as shown.

 

[fireproof78]

I remember reading somewhere that Pine was inspired more by Harrison Ford's Han Solo in his take on Kirk. In hindsight, his Kirk did have a roguish and slightly outsider quality even after three years at Starfleet Academy, IMO...

I can't remember that, though it makes sense. Pine's Kirk strikes me as much a "rebel without a cause" style too. But it works.

Yet Pike was more of the Kirk we knew than the one we were presented with in this new episode.

Which is reasonable given that Kirk has not had the experiences to shape him that had happened by Balance of Terror.

People are not static. One experience can shift an entire perspective, to the point that decisions are made differently.

If these events really happened then ok, it isn't well represented. But if it is just a crystal induced vision then it works for me as shown.

It works both ways, because Kirk is different. He will not be the same as Balance of Terror Kirk.

 

[shapeshifter]

Funny how clear a vision of episode events can be right after viewing, but days of reading dozens of differing opinions can muddy it up.

 

[mattman8907]

give Paul's age (he's turning 40 in a couple of weeks), I wouldn't mind if he portrayed Kirk right after the events of the First movie as Kirk and Paul would be around the same age (40) in either a direct to streaming movie or a six part mini series.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yeah, that too.



Okay. Did the events really occur or were they only in Pike's mind?

If these events really happened then ok, it isn't well represented. But if it is just a crystal induced vision then it works for me as shown.

I'm willing to entertain the notion that this was allegory.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early. Try looking a little harder or removing your bias blinders?

I am seeing an early Kirk. Others are seeing an early Kirk.

It's actually not a earlier younger Kirk then we have seen before. The Kirk we saw in the last episode was the same age Kirk as in BOT.

 

[Trekker4747]

Because it was a caricature which Pine explicitly stated avoiding in 09.

More generally, I'm not thrilled by Kirk showing up but I'm at least willing to give the actor more than one episode in an alternate timeline before I start my #notmyKirk outrage campaign. Call me crazy.

And I point out again no one is asking for a Shatner impersonation. We are looking for some charm and charisma, a man who uses that to get what he wants. A man with a smile that melts underwear, the man DESCRIBED in the episode!

Not a man with a derpy frown and the charm of a Starbucks vendor.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

give Paul's age (he's turning 40 in a couple of weeks), I wouldn't mind if he portrayed Kirk right after the events of the First movie as Kirk and Paul would be around the same age (40) in either a direct to streaming movie or a six part mini series.

He actually does come across a bit like the very serious Kirk from the Motion Picture.

 

[fireproof78]

And I point out again no one is asking for a Shatner impetsonation. We are looking forvsome charm and charisma, a man who uses that to get what he wants. A man with a smile that melts underwear, the man DESCRIBED in the episode!

Sorry you didn't get it.

I didn't expect it. IDIC etc. etc.

He actually does come across a bit like the very serious Kirk from the Motion Picture.

He does, and his speech with Pike is very much that bite that Kirk would come to use more effectively with other officers in the future. While I don't see him as being exactly like Kirk, or an imitation, I do see qualities of Kirk, but far more serious, and less humor. Perhaps some will read that as a lack of charisma, but I don't see a lack of Kirk. Just an emphasis on personality traits that are not always appealing.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That Kirk never had "this exact moment in his life." He'd had the responsibility of commanding a Constitution starship for some time; this guy hasn't. He'd made a number of challenging decisions this guy hasn't, at quite some personal emotional cost, such as deciding to kill his best friend. And so on, and so forth. This guy is not that guy.

In the first season alone, Kirk suffered at least six traumatic events. His college mentor framed him. He was split in two and reintegrated. He had to court martial His best friend. He let the woman he loved die. And twice was exposed to influences SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO CHANGE HIS PSYCHOLOGY in Dagger of the Mind and This Side of Paradise.

And he didn't change.

As a very American Cold War hero, Kirk was the epitome of constancy by design.

Kirk1 and Kirk3 shared all the same experiences up to the point that one gets the Enterprise, the other the Farragut. They both experienced genocide. They both went to the academy. They both experienced the energy monster. They had many of the same romances. Very little could have happened in that gap could have happened to change Kirk given the constancy the writers and producers hardwired into him.

Only when confronted with old age (biological changes in TWOK) does Kirk start to gradually show other aspects of his personality.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk1 and Kirk3 shared all the same experiences up to the point that one gets the Enterprise, the other the Farragut. They both experienced genocide. They both went to the academy. They both experienced the energy monster. They had many of the same romances. Very little could have happened in that gap could have happened to change Kirk given the constancy the writers and producers hardwired into him.

Relationships that didn't happened impacted him. Yes, there is absolutely changes that would impact his growth.

Sorry, I don't buy in to the TV parlance that characters don't change due to big and small events occurring or not occurring. TOS, for all it's ups, was not great about showing the dynamics of a human being struggling. And I'm loathed to be inclined that SNW repeated these statuesque heroic figures who are unmoved by personal tragedy.

Star Trek demonstrated that small changes can have big differences with Tapestry. I think "A Quality of Mercy" is closer to the Tapestry approach than the TOS approach of shrug it off and move on.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Not in the beginning he was. James Cawley grew into the role as Kirk, IMO. Same with Vic Mignogna with his take on Kirk.

Uh, my point was Crawley was awful, never believable as Kirk. Wesley is worse.

Mignogna didn't play Kirk, he played "Shatner as Kirk." Still better than Weasley.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Relationships that didn't happened impacted him. Yes, there is absolutely changes that would impact his growth.

Sorry, I don't buy in to the TV parlance that characters don't change due to big and small events occurring or not occurring. TOS, for all it's ups, was not great about showing the dynamics of a human being struggling. And I'm loathed to be inclined that SNW repeated these statuesque heroic figures who are unmoved by personal tragedy.

Star Trek demonstrated that small changes can have big differences with Tapestry. I think "A Quality of Mercy" is closer to the Tapestry approach than the TOS approach of shrug it off and move on.

TNG also had this to say:

But it will be your ship, and being who you are, it will soon be vibrant with your authority, your style, your vision. You know, there really is no substitute for holding the reins.

If people were to be affected by the differences in ships, it would be those being commanded, not those commanding.

 

[Noname Given]

That Kirk never had "this exact moment in his life." He'd had the responsibility of commanding a Constitution starship for some time; this guy hasn't. He'd made a number of challenging decisions this guy hasn't, at quite some personal emotional cost, such as deciding to kill his best friend. And so on, and so forth. This guy is not that guy.

^^^
You know that's something I haven't considered, I.E that this James T Kirk hadn't had the same Adventures up to this point (just substituting the Farragut for the Enterprise).

But IDK in that I can't see any version of Kirk willing to express his command decision doubts in front of his/a bridge crew which he did in this episode.

Yes Kirk was sometimes self-doubting and introspective, but only with close confidants in private; and never on the bridge when he was giving orders.

And when speaking on the bridges of the Farragut and the Enterprise to Pike and others, this interpretation of Kirk didn't project the aura of self-confidence that I feel both Shatner and Pine always did when they were giving orders or speaking to crew on their respective Bridges.

It could have been a note the director of the episode gave Paul Wesley; I.E. that this version of Kirk should be less self-confident, it's a note I would not agree with. But then again I'm not the one tasked with giving the performance.

 

[fireproof78]

If people were to be affected by the differences in ships, it would be those being commanded, not those commanding.

Ships? No. People, yes people. It's a fascinating little thing how people are impacted by one another. Things that would be regarded as unimportant by one are life changing to another. I should say that it isn't that I find Kirk has changed so much as what is emphasized by the people around him, and it leads to a different way of approaching people. That's the difference to me-the people he was with.

What's interesting is someone else here posted a snippet from "Obsession" where McCoy addresses "Lieutenant Kirk," who was filled with regret over his hesitation that cost the lives of half the Farragut's crew. Now, of course no one can say that this event occurred the same way but it certainly is reflective of aspects of his personality that would become less pronounced as he became more seasoned, and less eager to fight.

To be perfectly blunt the only thing that bothers me about Wesley's Kirk is that he won't ever be given his chance to shine.

 

[Trekker4747]

In the first season alone, Kirk suffered at least six traumatic events. His college mentor framed him. He was split in two and reintegrated. He had to court martial His best friend. He let the woman he loved die. And twice was exposed to influences SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO CHANGE HIS PSYCHOLOGY in Dagger of the Mind and This Side of Paradise.

And he didn't change.

As a very American Cold War hero, Kirk was the epitome of constancy by design.

Kirk1 and Kirk3 shared all the same experiences up to the point that one gets the Enterprise, the other the Farragut. They both experienced genocide. They both went to the academy. They both experienced the energy monster. They had many of the same romances. Very little could have happened in that gap could have happened to change Kirk given the constancy the writers and producers hardwired into him.

Only when confronted with old age (biological changes in TWOK) does Kirk start to gradually show other aspects of his personality.

And we don't know what was different about his time commanding the Farragut. Who's to say he didn't have the same "season 1 experiences" up to BoT? And if they were different would that year or so of differences change him from the Kirk we know to this Wesley Kirk?

As you point out nothing we see that happens to Kirk in S1 of TOS changes him. (A design flaw of episodic TV writing of the era.) Why would getting the Farragut turn him into this man?