Pathetic Showing for Starfleet

[Squiggy]

One of the things that disappointed me about the new film was the loosey goosey portrayal of Starfleet. What we saw was an organization with a flimsy organizational structure and a total lack of the military-esque discipline we have seen in every other incarnation of the show.

Re. Boot.

 

[VonHelton]

Major spoilers to follow ...

One of the things that disappointed me about the new film was the loosey goosey portrayal of Starfleet. What we saw was an organization with a flimsy organizational structure and a total lack of the military-esque discipline we have seen in every other incarnation of the show.

It's one thing to have commanders simply replacing their bridge officers at will. But look at that scene at the Academy that leads to the mission to Vulcan.

First, we get Kirk being totally called out for a disciplinary action in front of the whole academy. WTF. Is there any way this isn't handled privately?

Then, the whole idea that the fleet is away on exercises and can't go to Vulcan. Huh? The whole fleet of ships tasked with exploring the galaxy are all exploring one specific sector of it at the same time? Except for the seven or so ships that happen to be in Earth orbit. But these ships don't have an actual crew and need the friggin' cadets to staff them? WTF? Why would Starfleet keep ships in orbit and no one around to staff them, especially the new flagship of the fleet?

And then six of the ships are wiped out in the first minutes of the battle, killing how many cadets? That should lead to some lawsuits from some angry parents.

Then we get acting captains tossing people off their ship on a whim, which is just bad form.

And on top of that, one of the cadets disobeys orders several times and ends up saving the day. And for this he not only gets to graduate the academy early, but gets to skip the general rank structure to become Captain of the friggin flagship? WTF?

Not to mention that the guy who was actually acting captain of the ship did as much to save Earth, and he just kind of gets passed over, especially after his planet is blown up. His only real lapse is when the other guy goaded him into an outburst. I'd say under the circumstances Spock acted beautifully.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

As I've stated previously, I actually served in the Naval Sea Cadet Corps, and I can assure you that none of us ever saw an aircraft carrier, let alone command one!

LOL!!

 

[candle_86]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!

BTW, ever thought that the ships were being refitted at that time and so didn't have a crew on hand? I mean I'm sure you'd make some bullshit excuse up for something in TNG/VOY/DS9 that ignores previous canon or regulation. Its a god damn movie, its a great movie.

Refit fine lets go there shall we.

The Enterprise in space dock was getting refit, yet all crew where aboard helping the refit.

Or we have Enterprise in space dock being refit, crew on earths surface taking shore leave and recalled at a moments notice.

Lets also take into account the acadamey instructors these people would have been given department head duties, and the space station we saw in orbit, would it not be crewed, and for a planet wide distress call would not all but the bare minimum go aboard the fleet vessels to respond?

And star fleet command, are you telling me the thousand officers at command have no training in star ship duties, could not the admirals and there staff have helped?


Lets see here for a single distress signal the Enterprise A is scrambled from Space Dock still being fixed and is crewed with an experinced crew aboard to handle it.

When the Enterprise responds to Regula and Khan lets see an experinced crew is onboard.

To say these ships did not have personal violates everything even modern ships being built or refit in a dry dock by the US Navy has an experinced crew overseaing the work, and Naval training vessels have a full expernced crew aboard to take command if needed.

ITs a massive plot hole

 

[Thrawn]

Or maybe a natural disaster on Vulcan was deemed the kind of mission that cadets would be able to accomplish, and the more experienced crews were left behind on purpose. As others have pointed out, Pike didn't seem too worried until Kirk informed him it was a trap.

 

[candle_86]

But none the less experinced personal would have gone, a plantary natural disater still means you need a crew that know how to evac a planet, that has been tested under pressure, and knows what to do. A bunch of Cadets that havnt graduated are not the right idea.

In a natural disater who responds West Point Cadets or the National Guard with trained officers?

 

[Thrawn]

But none the less experinced personal would have gone, a plantary natural disater still means you need a crew that know how to evac a planet, that has been tested under pressure, and knows what to do. A bunch of Cadets that havnt graduated are not the right idea.

In a natural disater who responds West Point Cadets or the National Guard with trained officers?

Starfleet isn't West Point, and actually in natural disasters TONS of reserves are called up, people who only attend a small amount of training once per year.

 

[VonHelton]

Or maybe a natural disaster on Vulcan was deemed the kind of mission that cadets would be able to accomplish, and the more experienced crews were left behind on purpose. As others have pointed out, Pike didn't seem too worried until Kirk informed him it was a trap.

Nope.......

The inexperience of the cadets would've jeopardized the mission. That's why cadets never see anything higher than a mop & a bucket.

 

[donners22]

But none the less experinced personal would have gone, a plantary natural disater still means you need a crew that know how to evac a planet, that has been tested under pressure, and knows what to do. A bunch of Cadets that havnt graduated are not the right idea.

In a natural disater who responds West Point Cadets or the National Guard with trained officers?

Starfleet isn't West Point, and actually in natural disasters TONS of reserves are called up, people who only attend a small amount of training once per year.

And are they then given a senior rank at the end of a mission?

 

[Qonos]

But none the less experinced personal would have gone, a plantary natural disater still means you need a crew that know how to evac a planet, that has been tested under pressure, and knows what to do. A bunch of Cadets that havnt graduated are not the right idea.

In a natural disater who responds West Point Cadets or the National Guard with trained officers?

Starfleet isn't West Point, and actually in natural disasters TONS of reserves are called up, people who only attend a small amount of training once per year.

And are they then given a senior rank at the end of a mission?

Wait this is the same show we saw make a CIVILIAN A HELMSMAN on a flag ship WITHOUT ANY STARFLEET TRAINING and you're bitching about this movie.

Fuck you and Fuck Weslely Crusher...

 

[donners22]

Fuck you and Fuck Weslely Crusher...

The level of class and intelligence of some people who defend the sillyness of this film, perfectly captured in six words. Well done.

 

[Thrawn]

But none the less experinced personal would have gone, a plantary natural disater still means you need a crew that know how to evac a planet, that has been tested under pressure, and knows what to do. A bunch of Cadets that havnt graduated are not the right idea.

In a natural disater who responds West Point Cadets or the National Guard with trained officers?

Starfleet isn't West Point, and actually in natural disasters TONS of reserves are called up, people who only attend a small amount of training once per year.

And are they then given a senior rank at the end of a mission?

Well, if the natural disaster turns out to be an alien invasion and one of them ends up captaining the ship that fights them off with almost no casualties, then maybe!

The movie exists in its own fictional place, and you can find real life analogues to every event that happens in the film. Of course they're not all going to come from exactly the same situation, though, because exactly the same situation is completely frigging impossible in the real world.

 

[Neopeius]

Wait this is the same show we saw make a CIVILIAN A HELMSMAN on a flag ship WITHOUT ANY STARFLEET TRAINING and you're bitching about this movie.

Fuck you and Fuck Weslely Crusher...

We thought it was stupid then, too.

It certainly never happened in TOS. In fact, in TOS the system was rigorous enough that command precedence played a big role in several episodes. For instance, Doomsday Machine and Deadly Years.

 

[Qonos]

Fuck you and Fuck Weslely Crusher...

The level of class and intelligence of some people who defend the sillyness of this film, perfectly captured in six words. Well done.

I was dumbing it down to your level.

How's this.

How can you complain about the rise in rank of a cadet who has proven himself in a crisis situation which save not only Earth, but tons of other federation planets (because Nero wasn't going to stop with just the Earth) when a prepubecent boy gets made the helmsman of the Flagship of the fleet when he hasn't even taken an Academy entrance exam.

 

[Thrawn]

In all fairness, Qonos, I think most people complained about that too, when it happened.

 

[Strekrules]

Did I watch the same movie? =p

They sent maybe 40-50 cadets to each ship. The Enterprise's bridge crew had ZERO cadets.

It's very possible those ships were all in space dock for the start/end of their "5 year mission" so they may have only had 75% of their crews. Why not load them up with 4th year cadets?

At the end of the day, Kirk saved Earth. Kirk saved the Federation. Kirk saved his Captain. I think that gives him the Chair.....

 

[Squiggy]

Major spoilers to follow ...

One of the things that disappointed me about the new film was the loosey goosey portrayal of Starfleet. What we saw was an organization with a flimsy organizational structure and a total lack of the military-esque discipline we have seen in every other incarnation of the show.

It's one thing to have commanders simply replacing their bridge officers at will. But look at that scene at the Academy that leads to the mission to Vulcan.

First, we get Kirk being totally called out for a disciplinary action in front of the whole academy. WTF. Is there any way this isn't handled privately?

Then, the whole idea that the fleet is away on exercises and can't go to Vulcan. Huh? The whole fleet of ships tasked with exploring the galaxy are all exploring one specific sector of it at the same time? Except for the seven or so ships that happen to be in Earth orbit. But these ships don't have an actual crew and need the friggin' cadets to staff them? WTF? Why would Starfleet keep ships in orbit and no one around to staff them, especially the new flagship of the fleet?

And then six of the ships are wiped out in the first minutes of the battle, killing how many cadets? That should lead to some lawsuits from some angry parents.

Then we get acting captains tossing people off their ship on a whim, which is just bad form.

And on top of that, one of the cadets disobeys orders several times and ends up saving the day. And for this he not only gets to graduate the academy early, but gets to skip the general rank structure to become Captain of the friggin flagship? WTF?

Not to mention that the guy who was actually acting captain of the ship did as much to save Earth, and he just kind of gets passed over, especially after his planet is blown up. His only real lapse is when the other guy goaded him into an outburst. I'd say under the circumstances Spock acted beautifully.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

As I've stated previously, I actually served in the Naval Sea Cadet Corps, and I can assure you that none of us ever saw an aircraft carrier, let alone command one!

LOL!!

Makes about a much sense as the same crew serving aboard the same aircraft carrier for 15 years, then having that crew all reassigned to a new aircraft carrier with the same name, doesn't it?

 

[Qonos]

Well it shows precedent and Wesley didn't even save the Federation, he only saved one ship.

I think a trained cadet, saving the asses of everyone in the Federation, minus the Vulcans (Sorry bout that guys) deserves a Kirkian reward like that, and establishes the precedent of the type of treatment Kirk got in the Prime Continuity. Think about it He stole a starship, blew it up after taking it to a planet that was off limits for the life on his best friends, then he commits an act of war by killing a Klingon crew and stealing their ship, but he saves the Federations ass by bringing back Whales from the past to send an alien Probe away. So he gets DEMOTED FROM ADMIRAL TO CAPTAIN... OF THE FLAGSHIP OF THE FLEET...... How is what happened here NOT Something Starfleet would do?

 

[clint g]

In all fairness, Qonos, I think most people complained about that too, when it happened.

Yeah, to this day people still complain about Wesley

 

[donners22]

I was dumbing it down to your level.

No, you were just demonstrating an inability to make a decent argument, a rudeness and a lack of maturity and self-control.

How's this.

How can you complain about the rise in rank of a cadet who has proven himself in a crisis situation which save not only Earth, but tons of other federation planets (because Nero wasn't going to stop with just the Earth)

A cadet who should not have been aboard the ship in the first place, was booted off the ship and goaded his commanding officer into a fight in front of other crew, mind you...

when a prepubecent boy gets made the helmsman of the Flagship of the fleet when he hasn't even taken an Academy entrance exam.

Which was silly enough of itself, but absolutely nothing compared to the responsibility of commanding an entire flagship. There's infinitely more responsibility for the captain than the helmsman.

 

[Qonos]

I was dumbing it down to your level.

No, you were just demonstrating an inability to make a decent argument, a rudeness and a lack of maturity and self-control.

How's this.

How can you complain about the rise in rank of a cadet who has proven himself in a crisis situation which save not only Earth, but tons of other federation planets (because Nero wasn't going to stop with just the Earth)

A cadet who should not have been aboard the ship in the first place, was booted off the ship and goaded his commanding officer into a fight in front of other crew, mind you...

when a prepubecent boy gets made the helmsman of the Flagship of the fleet when he hasn't even taken an Academy entrance exam.

Which was silly enough of itself, but absolutely nothing compared to the responsibility of commanding an entire flagship. There's infinitely more responsibility for the captain than the helmsman.

With the rudeness part. I tend to stick with my Klingon roots, and you aren't being Sister Mary Abraham with some of your snark so my response still stands.