Paramount/JJ trying another Trek movie (that will probably never get made).

[Ometiklan]

Minus some boneheaded choices, STID was a very good movie.

I still never understand this opinion. For me, STID was so bad it is the only Trek movie i have only watched once.

That said, I am looking forward to one more Kelvin-verse adventure. Hopefully they can tie things up and end the story- (and time-)line in a satisfying way.

 

[Rahul]

I still never understand this opinion. For me, STID was so bad it is the only Trek movie i have only watched once.

STID is actually only a "mediocre bad movie". It's not worse than, say, the G.I. Joe movie, or "battleship". In fact, some parts and scenes in it are actually quite good.

It only turns bad once you have some insight knowledge of Star Trek. Then the Khan reveal, the TWOK reversal, the super blood, the transwarp beaming, the relationship-talk-during-undercover-mission, the cat-ladys-threesome, Spock snitching and so on start to really hurt.
But for the casual audience, these are just details in an overall entertaining popcorn flick.

The same how "somehow Palpatine returned" is just another line of dialogue for a non-die hard fan, and "Rise of Skywalker" actually a mostly entertaining film with a great cast if you're only vaguely familiar with the stuff that happened before.

That's infuriating as a fan. But probably not "the worst thing ever".

 

[fireproof78]

It's funny when people say that. As a fan, Into Darkness and Rise of Skywalker are supported by my fan knowledge, not diminished.

 

[jackoverfull]

I still never understand this opinion. For me, STID was so bad it is the only Trek movie i have only watched once.

agreed, possibly the worst Trek movie for me. Still, my mother loves it…

 

[dupersuper]

agreed, possibly the worst Trek movie for me.

Second worst for me. I put it above Nemesis.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's funny how divisive Into Darkness is. I was checking out some Trek movie rankings recently and I kept seeing it show up in lists up around 4th place or right down at 12th. It was rarely anyone's least favourite, but lots of people would put it as their second worst. It seems like mirroring Wrath of Khan really didn't impress anyone.

Personally I'd put it as the worst of the good movies, but still very entertaining.

 

[fireproof78]

I think Into Darkness is a middle of the road for movie. I would put it above the TNG films and a couple of TOS ones. It is a lot of fun and Kirk's arc is still one of my character developments in Star Trek. It is diminished by the pacing and the insistence upon putting Khan in there. Had Khan been omitted, it would have been a great film, rather than just a good film.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

^This.

Remove the Khan baggage and there's a good movie in there. There's nothing to stop John Harrison being an entirely different remnant of the Eugenics War. I think Cumberbatch played an assured and menacing villain, but there was no need for it to have been Khan.

That said, I am looking forward to one more Kelvin-verse adventure. Hopefully they can tie things up and end the story- (and time-)line in a satisfying way.

I'd rather a 4th movie be a start of a second trilogy. No reason to end it IMO and every reason to continue. Especially seeing as streaming Trek means we can have our Prime-Cake and eat it too whilst still getting more Kelvin. Everybody's happy (except of course for the ones who are never happy anyway).

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I think the problem wasn't that Khan was in the film, it's that Khan wasn't in the film. The reveal fell totally flat for Star Trek fans because Harrison didn't resemble Khan in appearance or character (and it fell flat for everyone else, because who's Khan?)

 

[fireproof78]

I think the problem wasn't that Khan was in the film, it's that Khan wasn't in the film. The reveal fell totally flat for Star Trek fans because Harrison didn't resemble Khan in appearance or character (and it fell flat for everyone else, because who's Khan?)

Eh...character wise it was fine. But, other than that it could have been better.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It seems like mirroring Wrath of Khan really didn't impress anyone.

I was LOLing in the theater, but I'm not sure that's what they were going for.

 

[The Wormhole]

The way STID handled Khan never made sense to me. He was included in the movie because he's supposedly Star Trek's most iconic villain, Captain Kirk's Joker or Moriarty. But then they make the fact that he's Khan a plot twist, meaning for the entire lead-up to STID's release, the identity of Cumberbatch's character was a secret until they announced the name that ultimately get revealed in the movie to be an alias. So they created this situation where they have Star Trek's most iconic villain in the movie, but then can't use the fact that they have the most iconic villain in the movie's promotional material. What's the point in having the most iconic villain in the movie if you can't tell people that he's in the movie?

Yeah, I know, Orci fell in love with the idea that the "My name is Khan" reveal could be remembered as one of cinema's best plot twists, on par with Vader's "I am your father" in Empire Strikes Back. Even changed the name of the alias in post production since it was feared the original alias was too much of an inside reference the die hard fans would figure out. Which makes it all the more laughable everyone figured it out in advance anyway.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Even changed the name of the alias in post production since it was feared the original alias was too much of an inside reference the die hard fans would figure out. Which makes it all the more laughable everyone figured it out in advance anyway.

What was the original alias?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, I know, Orci fell in love with the idea that the "My name is Khan" reveal could be remembered as one of cinema's best plot twists...

I really enjoy watching Cumberbatch work, but his delivery of that line was a bit... off... Not his finest moment. IMO, of course.

What was the original alias?

John Harrison. Pretty milquetoast. Just like that version of the character.

 

[fireproof78]

Cumberbatch is awesome. One of the highlights of the film. Cold, calculating and just utterly carries himself as a predator. Nothing warm, even when he is weeping over his crew there is a certain coldness to it. Absolutely phenomenal.

And it would have been just as phenomenal as Harrison.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think the problem wasn't that Khan was in the film, it's that Khan wasn't in the film. The reveal fell totally flat for Star Trek fans because Harrison didn't resemble Khan in appearance or character (and it fell flat for everyone else, because who's Khan?)

He reminded me of "Space Seed" Khan rather than the OTT scenery chewing WOK Khan.

 

[fireproof78]

He reminded me of "Space Seed" Khan rather than the OTT scenery chewing WOK Khan.

Same here. TWOK Khan was dangerous but over the top in presentation. Space Seed Khan was ready to kill at a moment's notice.

 

[The Wormhole]

What was the original alias?

John Ericson, which is what Khan was named in earlier drafts of Space Seed. And that is indeed what the actors spoke while filming STID, as can be heard whenever his name is spoken in deleted scenes. But then in post-production Orci worried Trek fans would hear the name John Ericson and figure out he was Khan and so the name was changed to John Harrison, and indeed all the actors had to rerecord their dialogue and the new lines saying Harrison had to be dubbed into the movie.

Then everyone figured out the character was Khan anyway due to how similar Harrison sounds to Ericson.

I really enjoy watching Cumberbatch work, but his delivery of that line was a bit... off... Not his finest moment. IMO, of course.

I liked How It Should Have Ended's parody of that scene.
"My name is Khan..."
"Okay, I'm Captain Kirk, and this is Mister Spock."
"No, no, guys, listen to me. My name is Khan..."
"Why do you keep saying it like that?"

 

[137th Gebirg]

Glad I’m not the only one who thought the delivery was weird.

 

[Nerys Myk]

John Ericson, which is what Khan was named in earlier drafts of Space Seed. And that is indeed what the actors spoke while filming STID, as can be heard whenever his name is spoken in deleted scenes. But then in post-production Orci worried Trek fans would hear the name John Ericson and figure out he was Khan and so the name was changed to John Harrison, and indeed all the actors had to rerecord their dialogue and the new lines saying Harrison had to be dubbed into the movie.

Then everyone figured out the character was Khan anyway due to how similar Harrison sounds to Ericson.

I liked How It Should Have Ended's parody of that scene.
"My name is Khan..."
"Okay, I'm Captain Kirk, and this is Mister Spock."
"No, no, guys, listen to me. My name is Khan..."
"Why do you keep saying it like that?"

Harold Ericson according to MA.
The better twist would be making everyone think he's Khan and then not be. Then we'd all be complaining that he wasn't Khan and Cumberbatch's talent was wasted by playing Not Khan. "We were promised Khan, F U Jar Jar Abraham!!!!!!"