Paramount apparently still doesn't get it...

[Nerys Myk]

They looked like humans with oily skin. Or sometimes not oily. That's about the extent of what TOS Klingons looked like.

A little more that that

With these guys they were going for alien, exotic and a little threatening'

These two look you dad's friends or a Folk duo from the 60s

 

[fireproof78]

It is the producers themselves that are picking the winners and losers. So as Terry Matalas has said, hopefully everyone can find their component or "flavor" of Trek in the current output.

I don't find that a winner/loser combo but that's just me. Again, if people can focus on the parts they enjoy I find that Trek gets a lot more fun. But, that's me, and a hard lesson I had to learn with TNG.

 

[Ovation]

if I wasn't a pre-existing fan of the Star Trek franchise, I wouldn't have watched / tried ST09 / STID / STB or DISCOVERY, SNW, or PICARD season 1.

If Paramount relied upon this logic, no one would have any new Trek to watch, regardless of “flavour”.

 

[Dukhat]

A little more that that

With these guys they were going for alien, exotic and a little threatening'

These two look you dad's friends or a Folk duo from the 60s

I’m not seeing any more differences than if I look at four different humans. They are all clearly supposed to be TOS Klingons, as opposed to TMP Klingons or DSC Klingons.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I’m not seeing any more differences than if I look at four different humans. They are all clearly supposed to be TOS Klingons.

The Kor and Kang make up is different than the Koloth and Kras make up. The darker skin. The bushy up swept eye brows. Kor's eyebrows are half way up his forehead and Kang's are headed toward his temples. Koloth and Kras are just run of the mill humans in Klingon uniforms. Take away the uniform and there's nothing to make them stand out. IIRC, Phillips or someone said they had forgotten what the Klingon make up entailed when they did TTWT.

 

[Dukhat]

The Kor and Kang make up is different than the Koloth and Kras make up. The darker skin. The bushy up swept eye brows. Kor's eyebrows are half way up his forehead and Kang's are headed toward his temples. Koloth and Kras are just run of the mill humans in Klingon uniforms. Take away the uniform and there's nothing to make them stand out. IIRC, Phillips or someone said they had forgotten what the Klingon make up entailed when they did TTWT.

My point is that they are still human-looking, despite whatever makeup and eyebrows they have. Not like the bumpy forehead versions or the DSC ones, however you’d like to describe them.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Contrast the idea that you need to re-imagine or re-invent to reach out to new audiences with how Marvel has handled the MCU. I am certain that Kevin Feige was told at some point that only "niche" comic-book geeks would suspend disbelief for a guy dressed like the American flag with a giant "A" on his forehead and a ripped blonde dude with a magic hammer. That they would need to adapt it in some way in order for modern audiences to accept it. But Marvel Studios believed in the strength of their properties and, for the most part, has done the best versions of the material they had. They put a green rage monster next to a guy that shoots arrows really, really good while they fought a purple dude with a magic glove and said deal with it.

I see your point, but remember in this case the source material itself has been reimagined and re-conceptualised within the comics themselves over the decades. Captain America was a WWII strip long before it was a Marvel property, but they've aged the character, they've had him change his name at points or even had other characters take up the shield. The Hulk is another example of a one-note character who has existed been tweaked over the years (Red Hulk, Grey Hulk, Smart Hulk etc.). Aside from a few side-gags there then Thor's original alter-ego has been dropped from the movies as well.

It is important to retain the core values of something in order to preserve what's special about it, but it's also important to attempt to push a given thing in different directions whilst maintaining those values. I don't think Miles Morales is any less of a Spider-Man than Peter Parker, even though both have different struggles. The core of 'teenager going through growing pains' remains, whilst everything else is mutable.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My point is that they are still human-looking, despite whatever makeup and eyebrows they have. Not like the bumpy forehead versions or the DSC ones, however you’d like to describe them.

My point is and remains

TOS had a hard time remembering what Klingons looked like.

As noted by Robert Justman

The second time [the Klingons appeared], something went wrong. I didn't see them in their makeup before they were photographed, as I usually did. The first time I saw the Klingons revisited, I was horrified. They were much paler and didn't match what we'd done before. I blew a gasket, but in television, unless it's a total disaster, you can't afford to reshoot. The third outing, we went back to them being darker."

and Ruth Berman

Also, because, when Fred Phillips looked up information on Klingons for 'The Trouble with Tribbles', the photos he found were poorly lit and gave the appearance of light skin and ordinary eyebrows.

I never said a thing about them not looking human, just alien and exotic,

 

[Dukhat]

That’s nice. TOS Klingons still looked like humans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That’s nice. TOS Klingons still looked like humans.

It's like you didn't read a thing in my post. Oh well, shall we jump to the part where you insult me and get admonished by the mods?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Is changing the size, capabilities, and appearance of the 2250's Enterprise (well beyond a visual reboot) on the same level as recasting Saavik? Can SNW and TOS believably co-exist in universe without prejudicing what came before?

No.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Is changing the size, capabilities, and appearance of the 2250's Enterprise (well beyond a visual reboot) on the same level as recasting Saavik? Can SNW and TOS believably co-exist in universe without prejudicing what came before?

Yes

 

[The Wormhole]

Is changing the size, capabilities, and appearance of the 2250's Enterprise (well beyond a visual reboot) on the same level as recasting Saavik? Can SNW and TOS believably co-exist in universe without prejudicing what came before?

Why does it matter?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Is changing the size, capabilities, and appearance of the 2250's Enterprise (well beyond a visual reboot) on the same level as recasting Saavik? Can SNW and TOS believably co-exist in universe without prejudicing what came before?.

Of course.

 

[Dukhat]

It's like you didn't read a thing in my post. Oh well, shall we jump to the part where you insult me and get admonished by the mods?

I read it. It had no bearing on what I was talking about. And whatever issue you have with me isn’t my problem.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Is changing the size, capabilities, and appearance of the 2250's Enterprise (well beyond a visual reboot) on the same level as recasting Saavik? Can SNW and TOS believably co-exist in universe without prejudicing what came before?

The changes to the Enterprise in SNW in terms of both exterior and interior are nothing compared to the changes wrought in TMP. The Enterprise of TMP is irreconcilable with the original, but it gets a pass. Why? Because we're used to it. Likewise the uniforms in TMP. That movie is a 100% visual reboot that doesn't even attempt to look like TOS. At least SNW is playing in the same ballpark.

 

[Farscape One]

The changes to the Enterprise in THE MOTION PICTURE get a pass because it was explained that the ship was completely refit. Mentioned multiple times, in fact.

 

[fireproof78]

The Kor and Kang make up is different than the Koloth and Kras make up. The darker skin. The bushy up swept eye brows. Kor's eyebrows are half way up his forehead and Kang's are headed toward his temples. Koloth and Kras are just run of the mill humans in Klingon uniforms. Take away the uniform and there's nothing to make them stand out. IIRC, Phillips or someone said they had forgotten what the Klingon make up entailed when they did TTWT.

Yeah, they don't fit. The Klingons always felt different in each version in TOS.

The changes to the Enterprise in SNW in terms of both exterior and interior are nothing compared to the changes wrought in TMP. The Enterprise of TMP is irreconcilable with the original, but it gets a pass. Why? Because we're used to it. Likewise the uniforms in TMP. That movie is a 100% visual reboot that doesn't even attempt to look like TOS. At least SNW is playing in the same ballpark.

Yup. TMP always stands out to me for these reasons.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm sorry to interrupt the discussion about Klingons, but according to Giant Freakin' Robot, Voyager is the next series to get the Picard Treatment.

GIANT FREAKIN ROBOT on Twitter: "My only regret is that we didn’t have this story ready in time for #FirstContactDay yesterday." / Twitter

Whether or not this is true, I'll reserve judgement, but I lean towards this being more likely than not. VOY's cast is the only other cast besides TNG's where I could see a full reunion happening. And they've already re-introduced several VOY characters in the Kurtzman Era.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The changes to the Enterprise in THE MOTION PICTURE get a pass because it was explained that the ship was completely refit. Mentioned multiple times, in fact.

They refitted the Enterprise so hard, it changed the look of the Klingon species.