Paramount apparently still doesn't get it...

[F. King Daniel]

It's not that they "don't get it"

They don't give a shit. They think enough fans will watch no matter what.

They know the die-hards will watch anything, make angry social media posts 24/7 and thus increase the show's engagement score.

They want new, young fans to replace the ageing and dying ones they already have. And a show aimed at teens will hopefully do just that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I understand your point. But I have to disagree. For me it boils down to this:

• TNG shows future humans
• PIC shows present day Americans on spaceships

Now I have a small culture shock with both of these. But I can see why American audiences & writers can identify more with the latter.

I never believed in Roddenberry's "evolved" humans. I DO however believe that people growing up in a post-scarcity, post -healthcare-issues society will be more gentle, rational people.

Now both approaches are valid. I LOVE nuBattlestar Galactica & the alien franchise, both pinnacles of the "flawed humans in space" approach.
But for me, the Roddenberry-ian humans are as much a part of Star Trek as beaming and phasers.

That also applies to TOS btw (which feels "more" human because the characters smile & joke a lot more - but it's actually quite amazing how similar TOS is to TNG in regard of "more enlightened" humans). Even DS9 "rebels" against this approach, but it's still there. For me the shift appeared on ENT - and all modern Trek since then.

Eh, TNG humans were Americans in space, too.

 

[Rahul]

Eh, TNG humans were Americans in space, too.

Very English Americans from France.

But true.

 

[The Wormhole]

Eh, years after TNG Patrick Stewart would play the Director of the CIA while using his natural accent, so the term Americans in space can apply to him too.

 

[somebuddyX]

I did always wonder what they actually did at the academy. I hope there's some lectures and they talk about the incident that happened in the year 3069 which was called ... Anyone? Anyone?... the Burn... and it was caused by ... Anyone? Anyone? what going inert? Dilithium? Dilithium, going inert Which led to the near collapse of? Anyone? The United Federation of Planets.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

It’ll be nice to see a Star Trek show in a different context. It'll be nice to see fresh young faces. They could get guest-stars of yore as well, even in a 32nd Century show, by having say: Miles O'Brien, the holo-teacher!

I think the important thing that Paramount 'gets' is that to move the franchise forward and reach new audiences, they have to pander to more than the minuscule proportion of the audience that posts on this BBS.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the important thing that Paramount 'gets' is that to move the franchise forward and reach new audiences, they have to pander to more than the minuscule proportion of the audience that posts on this BBS.

This. People often forget how important it is to grow outside of the little niche circle we have built here but Paramount knows that painful reality and has to actively reach out to new audiences or face even further losses.

Paramount doesn't need to "get" anything. It produces a product; the audience decides to participate or not.

That is the nature of the relationship. Nothing more; nothing less.

 

[Ovation]

This. People often forget how important it is to grow outside of the little niche circle we have built here but Paramount knows that painful reality and has to actively reach out to new audiences or face even further losses.

Paramount doesn't need to "get" anything. It produces a product; the audience decides to participate or not.

That is the nature of the relationship. Nothing more; nothing less.

But, but, but…the Stuvis. What about the Stuvis? I built the petition and everything. You said I could. I would have won. I would’ve. I would’ve. I would’ve…

 

[flandry84]

Quick point...O’Brien wasn’t racist.This goddam false hood persists.
“It’s not you I hate Cardassian,it’s what I became because of you”.
The man is a traumatized veteran not a racist.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I did always wonder what they actually did at the academy. I hope there's some lectures and they talk about the incident that happened in the year 3069 which was called ... Anyone? Anyone?... the Burn... and it was caused by ... Anyone? Anyone? what going inert? Dilithium? Dilithium, going inert Which led to the near collapse of? Anyone? The United Federation of Planets.

I look forward to Cadet Bueller’s day off.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Quick point...O’Brien wasn’t racist.This goddam false hood persists.
“It’s not you I hate Cardassian,it’s what I became because of you”.
The man is a traumatized veteran not a racist.

It’s possible yo be both.

 

[flandry84]

Of course it is possible to be both.
But the chief is one not the other.
Watching the clip just now on YT,I read the comments below and someone made the valid point that O’B said..”The man just disintegrated...”.Not ‘the cardie’ or ‘spoonhead’ the man.

 

[flandry84]

Going back to the academy show.I just hope that it’s better than that Tilly and the cadets episode.Geez that one fell out of the cliche tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[fireproof78]

It’s possible yo be both.

I think the Chief was briefly but was able to recognize the source and make his changes. It's one episode that I love as a stark contrast to the sanitized humanity of early TNG. O'Brien grows and changes in the episode; Maxwell recognizes his errors and is willing to at least admit it. It shows that humans have choice in their traumas. And it's beautiful.

Going back to the academy show.I just hope that it’s better than that Tilly and the cadets episode.Geez that one fell out of the cliche tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Because naturally the show will be exactly the same as one episode...

...that's just logic...some how.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

O’Brien wasn’t a racist…

McCoy, however…

 

[flandry84]

I said that I hoped the show will be handled better than the episode from which it is apparently emerging from.
You seem to agree that said episode really wasn’t very good.
See how ..logical that was?

 

[fireproof78]

I said that I hoped the show will be handled better than the episode from which it is apparently emerging from.
You seem to agree that said episode really wasn’t very good.
See how ..logical that was?

I liked the episode fine. I don't agree that it wasn't very good.

I don't think it is emerging from that episode. I quite expect the Academy series to be completely different from Discovery and take on its own flavoring.

Logic is only as good as information that informs it. We have limited information thus far. My assumptions may be off.

 

[Citiprime]

This. People often forget how important it is to grow outside of the little niche circle we have built here but Paramount knows that painful reality and has to actively reach out to new audiences or face even further losses.

Paramount doesn't need to "get" anything. It produces a product; the audience decides to participate or not.

That is the nature of the relationship. Nothing more; nothing less.

I think the problem is when "actively reach out" means losing what made a legacy property unique. That's arguably the flip side of dying a niche property; studios believing they need to change things to grow an audience, and they make something so generic as to be forgettable. Anyone can do an action movie that has mass appeal with some science fiction elements thrown in. JJ Abrams did it 4 times with both Star Wars and Star Trek characters. But in all 4 cases, there were elements of those fanbases that felt the "product" was lacking what made those intellectual properties special.

Contrast the idea that you need to re-imagine or re-invent to reach out to new audiences with how Marvel has handled the MCU. I am certain that Kevin Feige was told at some point that only "niche" comic-book geeks would suspend disbelief for a guy dressed like the American flag with a giant "A" on his forehead and a ripped blonde dude with a magic hammer. That they would need to adapt it in some way in order for modern audiences to accept it. But Marvel Studios believed in the strength of their properties and, for the most part, has done the best versions of the material they had. They put a green rage monster next to a guy that shoots arrows really, really good while they fought a purple dude with a magic glove and said deal with it.

They decided to dance with the ones that brung 'em, and went with the plan that thinks if you have a legacy property that people know and you think can make for a good story, then you turn into making the best version of that material and trust that it will find an audience beyond the die hard fans.

 

[fireproof78]

there were elements of those fanbases that felt the "product" was lacking what made those intellectual properties special.

Fans always think that. Every single time. This doesn't strike me as a sign of the "wrong direction." It just means that it appeals to fans differently. And I say that if a movie that can appeal to my dad (Long time TOS fan and disinterested in anything post TOS) and my wife (long time nonlover of Science fiction) and my mom (long time hater of all things SF) can sit down and enjoy these films then something is clicking right.

Contrast the idea that you need to re-imagine or re-invent to reach out to new audiences with how Marvel has handled the MCU.

That's not the Star Trek way. Never has been. Might change.

 

[Greg Cox]

It would imply some things that would strongly conflict with the sort of utopia Roddenberry envisioned in ways that I think the occasional power-hungry admiral doesn't. It also undercuts the message at the heart of Edith Keeler's speech in the soup kitchen. That one day the destiny of exploring the galaxy will fill humanity with "hope and a common future" that'll be the days worth living for, not getting high from whatever dime bag that Ensign Petey was selling on Deck 2.

Beyond that, we're told Earth is a place where there is no poverty, no crime, and no inequality (although, I know people are gonna argue this is more of a TNG thing than a TOS thing). But if we accept the vision of Star Trek that Roddenberry intended, why would someone deal drugs in a society with no money? If there are drug dealers on Federation starships, it implies there's still disparities and indicates there are still huge cracks in human society where people either feel the need to sell drugs to get ahead, or to use them to cope.

Without getting sucked into a whole debate, the whole "no money" thing was NEVER established on TOS. The earliest reference to it was a gag in the whale movie. And forget 23rd-century Earth (which we never actually saw on TOS) for a moment; there are plenty of indications that commerce is still a thing out on the Final Frontier.