Painkiller spinoff (Arrowverse)

[Caretaker]

A Painkiller spinoff of Black Lightning is in the works - an episode in season four of Black Lightning will serve as a backdoor pilot.

The actor impressed me this past season. They have redeemed the character from unrepentant killer to reluctant hero.

 

[Marc]

A Painkiller spinoff of Black Lightning is in the works - an episode in season four of Black Lightning will serve as a backdoor pilot.

The actor impressed me this past season. They have redeemed the character from unrepentant killer to reluctant hero.

Pass.

Sorry - the character doesn't appeal enough to have his own series.

 

[JD]

Last season I was thinking that Jordan Calloway was doing a great job, and I'd love to see him as a lead of his own show or movie, and now he's getting his own show. I'll admit, I wasn't necessarily think of him doing a Painkiller show, but I'll gladly take it.

 

[Christopher]

They should team him up with Jane Austen from Legends of Tomorrow and call the show Painkiller and Jane.

Or he could convert to a pacifistic South Asian religion -- Painkiller Jain.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

A Painkiller spinoff of Black Lightning is in the works - an episode in season four of Black Lightning will serve as a backdoor pilot.

The actor impressed me this past season. They have redeemed the character from unrepentant killer to reluctant hero.

I'm skeptical about this; while Khalil/Painkiller had a compelling arc, I am not certain there's enough to base a series on him. He would be best served being a character on the parent series who is still trying to reclaim his real life/lost opportunities as a young black male, so he only shows up to deal with crime when things are really beyond the abilities of law enforcement and the Black Lightning team.

..and after all of the serious work put into this character's plight since being being injured / transformed into a killer, the last thing a Painkiller series needs are any guest appearances / crossovers from those markedly inferior Arrowverse series.

 

[kirk55555]

How desperate is CW to do spinoffs of random characters? Is DC/WB just withholding rights to more people from the CW, so CW is desperately trying to make new stuff with characters they already have rights to? If the random Black Lightning spinoff goes to air when that Black canary show didn't, it would be hilarious but also pathetic. But, I guess they're really stretching to get new shows. Supergirl is ending fairly soon, and The Flash probably only has a few more years, soon they could be down to Black Lightning, Super Tweens, Fake Batwoman, Stargirl and Shitty Stoner Comedy as the DC live up. Its a far cry from the Arrowverse's prime, but even I didn't think they'd be desperate enough to try a spinoff with basically a no name, z-list DC villain, spinning off from one of the less popular CW DC Shows.

 

[JD]

Painkiller was a huge part of the last couple seasons so he's not just a random character. The spin-off is based solely off the show's version of the character and Jordan Calloway's performance, so how important the character is to the comics has nothing to do with the show.

 

[Christopher]

The spin-off is based solely off the show's version of the character and Jordan Calloway's performance, so how important the character is to the comics has nothing to do with the show.

Right. Look at how many of the Legends of Tomorrow don't even exist in the comics -- Sara, Ava, Gideon, Amaya, Charlie, Gary, Mona, etc. Not to mention Phil Coulson and the Agents of SHIELD.

 

[kirk55555]

Painkiller was a huge part of the last couple seasons so he's not just a random character. The spin-off is based solely off the show's version of the character and Jordan Calloway's performance, so how important the character is to the comics has nothing to do with the show.

That's fair enough, you couldn't pay me to watch Black Lightning so I don't know how important the character is to that show. But, why bother with a show that people who don't watch BL won't care about? Its not like Black Lightning is anywhere near the most popular Arrowverse show ratings wise. In fact, the info I found had Black Lightning as the lowest rated Arrowverse show

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2019-20-season-ratings/

Its still doing well enough by CW standards to not get cancelled, but its definitely getting the worst ratings of the Arrowverse shows, so a spinoff seems weird. The Black canary spin off at least made sense, hell a Legends of Tomorrow spinoff would make more sense then a Black Lightning spin off, at least when it comes to attracting people who aren't already watching the show its spinning off from.

In the end I don't really care, I loathe every part of the Arrowverse that isn't The Flash at this point, but it just seems unusual. I kind of wish we'd gotten an Atom show as a spinoff, both as a fuck you to the Legends producers for basically firing Routh (and the actress who played his love interest whose name escapes me), and because seeing The Atom have cool adventures seems like it would be a fun show, although probably too expensive when you consider that even Legends almost never had Ray use his powers even when he should have.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But, why bother with a show that people who don't watch BL won't care about? .

Spin-offs are made to appeal to those who are already watching the parent series, otherwise a concept would go to series as an original idea. If a Painkiller series is greenlit, it will be based on a direct connection to Black Lightning--a universe its potential audience is familiar with and support, just as the case of Laverne and Shirley's connection to Happy Days, The Jeffersons from All in the Family, etc.

 

[kirk55555]

Spin-offs are made to appeal to those who are already watching the parent series, otherwise a concept would go to series as an original idea. If a Painkiller series is greenlit, it will be based on a direct connection to Black Lightning--a universe its potential audience is familiar with and support, just as the case of Laverne and Shirley's connection to Happy Days, The Jeffersons from All in the Family, etc.

but that still doesn't make sense, because Black Lightning has the lowest ratings of the arrowverse shows. Why do a spin-off of the show that ratings-wise is doing the worst of all the superhero shows on CW? Doesn't that put the cap for the ratings for the spin off at about the level of the original show, which itself is just a bit above what seems to be the cancellation range for CW? That's why I said it made no sense, because you don't spin off the least popular property, you spin off the more popular properties.

 

[theenglish]

You should really give Black Lightning a try. It is the only CW show where the character is actually improved upon from the comic book version. In the comics BL has never been given the credit he deserves and has never (unless there is a series I am missing) really been written up to his potential. Black Lightning the series is a great allegory for social issues in contemporary society and is the most grounded, "real world" series the CW has developed.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

You should really give Black Lightning a try.

Have you learned nothing by now?

 

[The Realist]

Have you learned nothing by now?

Yeah, he apparently has watched it -- at least enough to form his usual ... er, perceptive and nuanced judgment (spoiler: the word "shit" figures prominently):

CW has a bad habit of casting really good main leads for shitty shows. For example, I really enjoy Supergirl the character, but her show is rancid. Black Lightning is like that, but worse because he also has no good supporting cast (at least Supergirl has Martian Manhunter) and no good villains (not really the show's fault, since Black Lightning has never really worked as a solo character and so has no notable villains, he's best when he's part of The Outsiders which obviously wouldn't work for a CW show).

Black Lightning, from what I watched, swapped between generic bullshit (I don't want to be a hero, ok I'll be a hero, no I'm quitting heroics again, wait no I'm not), teenage bullshit with the crappy kids, and wanting to be Luke Cage. But LC had a really good villain for about 3/4ths of its run, said what it wanted to say much better (even with a few shitty episodes in the last third like every netflix show), and had a lot less angsty shit.

Black Lightning isn't the worst CW DC show (that's a tie between Legends and Supergirl, and Stargirl would probably take that title if it was actually a CW show and not just being aired by them), but both Legends and Supergirl had good stuff in the past, while BL as a show has never been better then mediocre with a lot of annoying shit.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

but that still doesn't make sense, because Black Lightning has the lowest ratings of the arrowverse shows. Why do a spin-off of the show that ratings-wise is doing the worst of all the superhero shows on CW?

That was not the point you were arguing. That was:

But, why bother with a show that people who don't watch BL won't care about?

No one is creating a Black Lightning spin-of for those who do not watch it--that makes no sense at all. As I already mentioned, spin-offs are made to appeal to those who are already watching the parent series, otherwise a concept would go to series as an original idea.

Why do a spin-off of the show that ratings-wise is doing the worst of all the superhero shows on CW?

[/QUOTE]

Apparently, there is an audience interested in seeing more Painkiller/Khalil--enough that spin-off would considered (although I still say he's better utilized on the parent series--but not for any claims of ratings, etc.) .

 

[kirk55555]

That was not the point you were arguing. That was:

No one is creating a Black Lightning spin-of for those who do not watch it--that makes no sense at all. As I already mentioned, spin-offs are made to appeal to those who are already watching the parent series, otherwise a concept would go to series as an original idea.

Apparently, there is an audience interested in seeing more Painkiller/Khalil--enough that spin-off would considered (although I still say he's better utilized on the parent series--but not for any claims of ratings, etc.) .

My point was that he only way Painfiller can really work, based on the ratings of Black Lightning, is if more people watch it then the parent show. If it only matches ratings, then its immediately one of the lower rated shows on the CW.

Why do a spinoff whose potential can really only lead it to do just above cancellation ratings? Shouldn't the point of any new show be to try to get high ratings? Spinning off literally the lowest rated DC show on the CW doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, he apparently has watched it -- at least enough to form his usual ... er, perceptive and nuanced judgment (spoiler: the word "shit" figures prominently):

God forbid someone dislikes something that others like. The show is shit in my opinion, I don't give a fuck if people disagree. It has a good lead but literally nothing else. I enjoyed seeing BL himself in COIE, and if they ever do crossovers again and he shows up I'm sure I'll like him then, too.

Also, complaining that I used curse words while talking about shows is a new one. Its probably the only thing I've never seen people complain about on this forum before so....congrats at doing something new, I guess

Have you learned nothing by now?

I watched several episodes and didn't like it. Stop pretending that people can't be allowed to dislike something. That goes for even if they haven't watched it, but I watched several episodes of Black Lightning, and found it to basically take the worst parts of Arrow (the hero constantly wanting to quit being a hero) without any of the good parts. No good villain, a shit supporting cast, a nonsensical plot, etc. There was a whole subplot of people trying to get him fired from his teaching job that literally had no reason to exist other then CW needs bullshit drama and the character of Black Lightning is too mature for the angsty romance shit of shows like Supergirl.

I gave that show a fair shot, and a lot more of my time then I give many shows (I won't be watching a single second of Super Babies or Fake Batwoman when they come out, for example). It was better then Stargirl or Legends of Tomorrow, but only because those shows are (in my opinion) offensively terrible, while Black Lightning is just generic CW bad. You don't have to agree with me, but pretending that I didn't give it a fair shot or don't have a valid opinion is bullshit.

 

[JD]

I'm going to assume that the people working at The CW know what shows deserve a spin-off better than we do.
And with the ratings, is that taking into account the people DVRing and watching online too, or just the TV audience. There are quite a few shows where the ratings shoot up quite a bit if you add the other ways people are watching.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm going to assume that the people working at The CW know what shows deserve a spin-off better than we do.
And with the ratings, is that taking into account the people DVRing and watching online too, or just the TV audience. There are quite a few shows where the ratings shoot up quite a bit if you add the other ways people are watching.

Well, TV producing companies make stupid decisions all the time, so I'd never assume that they know better

As for DVR, neither ratings article I could find

https://tvline.com/2019/12/25/ratings-2019-2020-tv-season-best-worst-the-cw/

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2019-20-season-ratings/

Mention that, but Black Lightning is always near the bottom of the lists, both in overall ratings and the 18-49 demographic (which is apparently fairly important), and I doubt that DVR numbers are going to boost it over the other Arrowverse shows. If CW actually cares about DVR then those numbers might help justify why Black Lightning is still on the air, but I seriously doubt that the show leaves the bottom spot of DC shows ratings wise, which still makes it having a spinoff ridiculous.

but again, to be clear, I don't care if CW wastes money on a spinoff to a bad Arrowverse show. Its just odd to me that this is potentially getting made when I can think of many more spinoffs that they could potentially do that would almost certainly do better, but in theend its not like I'm invested in what the CW Arrowverse does anymore. As long as The Flash keeps getting made, thats all I care about because its the only good show in the Arrowverse anymore.

 

[The Realist]

The Flash is a complete snoozefest at this point.

I think, come the new season, I'm going to bag most of the Arrowverse shows and just watch the few I really care about: Superman & Lois, Supergirl, and Black Lightning.

 

[JD]

I'm shocked to see anyone say The Flash is the best Arrowverse show. I still enjoy it, but it's probably my least favorite of the current shows.
I'd go:
Legends of Tomorrow
Black Lightning
Batwoman
Stargirl (not actually set in the same universe as the other shows, but Crisis on Infinite Earth included it as Earth-2, so it's part of their multiverse)
Supergirl
The Flash