P/C run amok...

[mrs_sideshow_bob]

Gone and found the quote from P.S.....
"I think Picard was shocked and very dismayed....it took a long time for him to get to the point where he could make that proposal, and I think with customary male vanity he was a little surprised"

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

Continuing the vague looks/grasping at straws from the movies, I just watched Insurrection recently and felt bad for Beverly. Nice to see her and Picard at the very beginning of the movie joking around but towards the end it was kind of sad the look she gives him after she reunites Gallatin with his mother. I never noticed it before, but she glances over at Anij and Picard and then walks away kinda sadly.

 

[Cali]

Damned Anij! Silly man, Picard should know that he and Beverly would be perfect together.

The movies ain't canon as far as P/C is concerned. To hell with them. Let's write P/C fanfic ignoring the movies. That's fun.

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

The movies wasted the P/C relationship, although I felt their friendship was shown a little bit more in Nemesis and somewhat at the beginning of Insurrection.

And speaking of Insurrection, I was watching the text commentary for it and Mike Okuda brings up the P/C relationship, but curiously he says that Beverly was Picard's unrequited love.

un·re·quit·ed - Not reciprocated or returned in kind: unrequited love

I don't think that's a good word to use to describe their relationship. Beverly definitely had feelings for him too but their timing seemed to be off between the two of them. If that makes any sense.

 

[mon capitaine]

^ I'm thinking 'unconsummated' may be the better word.

I'll have to watch Ins again now, just to see this look Bev gives Picard.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by CalifornianStrawberries:
Damned Anij! Silly man, Picard should know that he and Beverly would be perfect together.

Anij is the first of Picard's occasional lady friends that I've actually disliked/resented. Vash, Kamala, Nella Daren, all fine. Beverly herself certainly didn't seem that upset by the idea of Vash. And all of them seemed to me to clearly be little more than flings, or thinly diguised Beverly-substitutes. Or both.

But Anij? Boring, inexplicable, just annoying. And since it's the movies, you get the feeling that his interest in Anij is really getting in the way of the possibility of his developing something with Beverly. Before, I always felt that they had plenty of time, and that Beverly felt so too. She was playing the long game. But by Insurrection, time is running out for them, and we know it.

 

[mon capitaine]

Anij was never going to be a serious threat to P/C because she was planet based. We know our boy doesn't like to be tied down like that.

Does Bev resent her? Perhaps she should have let her die after the cave-in? "I'm sorry her injuries were too severe". Instead of pulling off the usual trek miracle of from 'death's door to running about with some delicate bruising' in under two minutes.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
Does Bev resent her? Perhaps she should have let her die after the cave-in? "I'm sorry her injuries were too severe".

Huh. I've seen a fanfic where that happened. Don't think it was good enough to bother tracking down, though.

Actually, just about everything that could happen (and quite a few things that couldn't) have happened in some fanfic somewhere. Perhaps fanfiction can somehow be used to prove the quantum many worlds hypothesis?

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Vasquez Rocks:
... but towards the end it was kind of sad the look she gives him after she reunites Gallatin with his mother. I never noticed it before, but she glances over at Anij and Picard and then walks away kinda sadly.

I actually dug out the DVD and rewatched this scene this morning. I'm not totally convinced the lovely Ms McFadden is actually doing much in that long shot. (I tried it on zoom too). Her withdrawal seemed to be an exercise in not falling down the steps rather than anything wistful.

I assumed she was looking at Picard because she was following his instructions to re-unite mother and son rather than shooting daggers at the woman he was holding hands with?

Could be just me though. Getting old and cynical.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
I'm not totally convinced the lovely Ms McFadden is actually doing much in that long shot. (I tried it on zoom too). Her withdrawal seemed to be an exercise in not falling down the steps rather than anything wistful.

I don't think the lovely Ms McFadden is doing much of anything in that movie, after the pivotal doing-up-Picard's-collar scene (or was that in Nemesis... I can't even remember). I can somehow forgive her for not standing around in the background putting in all sorts of nuances.

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Naraht:
...the pivotal doing-up-Picard's-collar scene (or was that in Nemesis... I can't even remember).

Yes it was Insurrection. That's what our poor P/C has become: she's dressing him like he's either 6 or 106.

My only recollection of her in Nemesis is being overlooked by Shinzon who inexplicably horns in on Troi instead. I never really understood that. We could have had an S/C thread if only he'd behaved more like a good clone should.

 

[Cali]

OK, I'm now feeling highly worked up about the lack of P/C in the movies.

Someone give me a list of good Beverly eps to watch at least...

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

Posted by mon capitaine:

I actually dug out the DVD and rewatched this scene this morning. I'm not totally convinced the lovely Ms McFadden is actually doing much in that long shot. (I tried it on zoom too). Her withdrawal seemed to be an exercise in not falling down the steps rather than anything wistful.

I assumed she was looking at Picard because she was following his instructions to re-unite mother and son rather than shooting daggers at the woman he was holding hands with?

You're probably right, but I'd liked to think it was the other one. My imagination is probably working overtime when watching the movies, because Beverly has nothing to do in any of them. Kind of fun to find these little vague looks though.

 

[mrs_sideshow_bob]

Re: Nemesis, I have to admit that I never got why the didn't have Shinzon go after Beverly either. I mean in terms of dramatic possibility, it could have been very powerful. Although I guess it mightn't have made the same impact on a non P/C aware audience (how dare such folk exist!). Even so, it's missed chances such as that, that really drive me nuts regarding the TNG movies.
Another being the Ahab scene in FC.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I think that their rationale in NEM was that Troi has her empathic abilities which they wanted to play on in the plot.

 

[LISA_t]

..and Nemesis *does* have a little more BEv than the other movies. BTW, does anyone know if the re-released movie (insurrection?) has any good Bev P/C moments in the deleted scenes, or am i really frantically grasping straws? *sigh*

..Back to Jack. I'm been thinking about the comments made on him on this thread, plus re reading some of Naraht's lovely fics (how's that for a plug? ) and my brain got to wondering.
I'm becoming increasingly certain that Jack was older than Beverly. Not necessarily Picard older- ie, less than 19 years her senior- but possibly around a decade older. I really REALLY can't see Picard becoming best friends with a guy the best part of 20 years his junior. Therefore, if I'm looking at Jack from an 'Attached' perspective, I'm fairly certain he was more of a contemporary to JLP than Bev.

But... there's those dratted appearances. Jack looks and sounds impossibly young in 'Family'.... I could handle that. Maybe by 'Attached' they'd forgotten that, but obviously not, for lo and behold we have ANOTHER young version of Jack in 'Journey's End.'

That leaves only one possible conclusion if I want to maintain my hypothesis. Jack was married to a doctor. Maybe she performed the 24th c equivalent of plastic surgery.

BTW, like the new forum advertised above. If it can get going it could be great for P/C- I actually prefer forums to mail lists. *off to put her money where her mouth is and join*

 

[Naraht]

Posted by LISA_t:
...re reading some of Naraht's lovely fics (how's that for a plug? )...

Oh, you shouldn't have.

I'm becoming increasingly certain that Jack was older than Beverly. Not necessarily Picard older- ie, less than 19 years her senior- but possibly around a decade older. I really REALLY can't see Picard becoming best friends with a guy the best part of 20 years his junior. Therefore, if I'm looking at Jack from an 'Attached' perspective, I'm fairly certain he was more of a contemporary to JLP than Bev.

My opinion really hasn't changed much since the last time this came up in the thread... I think the solution is not to make Jack so much older than Beverly, but simply to make Jean-Luc younger. The actual age gap between Patrick Stewart and Gates McFadden is, IIRC, nine years. This is enough to make Picard appear considerably older, but not so much as to stop Beverly from appearing basically to be his contemporary. Where TPTB went wrong was to make Picard so much older than the actor who played him.

Having said this, I will admit to inconsistency in my own writing. In my real universe stories, I have re-jigged things in order to make Picard about ten years older than both Bev and Jack. In my mirror universe stories I kept the full nineteen year gap, because I liked the psychological consequences it created. Ah well, consistency is the hobgoblin of fannish minds...

But... there's those dratted appearances. Jack looks and sounds impossibly young in 'Family'.... I could handle that. Maybe by 'Attached' they'd forgotten that, but obviously not, for lo and behold we have ANOTHER young version of Jack in 'Journey's End.'

Well, y'know, it's the same actor. Given that he was obviously still available for 'Journey's End,' I can't really fault them for casting him again. I can, however, fault them for not casting John Barrowman first time round.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

Remind me where this 19 year age gap comes from? I don't remember any of the characters having their ages stated in any episodes.

 

[mon capitaine]

^ Don't think it ever came up in conversation in an episode, but the official biographies of the characters state a 19 year difference, which sort of makes it cannon.

YES. Jack was far too young as portrayed in Family. It's in the script that his youth should surprise Wesley and I do think that was a mistake. It's been a while since I gritted my teeth at Jack being portrayed as Doomed Young Father rather than Picard's Comtemporary Best Mate, but considered them gritted once again.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I have to admit that I've never really had a problem with him as he appeared in "Family". Probably because I hadn't given the character much thought before then, so I just accepted him as presented.