^ Thanks for the clarification - I'm aware that I'm among the great Trek-scholars on this thread! 
P/C run amok...
- Thread starter Naraht
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I'm pretty sure that Picard told Riker, Troi, and Worf about their future, hoping to head off the unhappiness that he saw there. And I imagine that he told Beverly again about his irumodic syndrome; that would seem a necessity. As for the rest of it... I can't imagine Picard seeing it as useful or productive to tell Beverly that they were divorced in a future timeline. He might have told her that she was captaining her own ship; he had to tell her something, didn't he? But as for going over the personal details, I'm not sure that he would want to get into that. Let me tell you, I've watched the final scene in AGT trying to figure this out from Beverly's manner, but for once, I haven't found much in the way of interesting subtext. If anyone sees something different, let me know.
Speaking of AGT, had people realised that That Kiss doesn't actually happen in our timeline? It took me a long time to realise that when everything resets itself, that means that the kiss is reset too. So do you think that they kissed again in the "real" timeline once (if) Beverly found out about the irumodic syndrome? Or were we cheated out of that too?
If we go with the theory that they got together after this and broke up just before First Contact then I guess so. Perhaps Picard contrived to tell her for maximum sympathy. 
As for telling the others, I bet that was a great conversation, what a shame we never got to see -
"Now Troi, you're dead. So try not to let that happen"
As for telling the others, I bet that was a great conversation, what a shame we never got to see -
"Now Troi, you're dead. So try not to let that happen"
Just the fact that she doesn't look at all uncomfortable around him might suggest that he hasn't told her. Perhaps he wanted to do that later, in private though.
Slightly off topic but if Picard were to suddenly be running round telling everyone how he saved humanity but that he's got this potential senility problem wouldn't Beverly relieve him of command on the spot?
After the 'Troi your dead' bit, he's going to follow it up with 'Geordi, still in touch with Leah? wink wink'.
After the 'Troi your dead' bit, he's going to follow it up with 'Geordi, still in touch with Leah? wink wink'.
This isn't exactly on topic, but it is a Beverly question.
I've seen many references to Beverly going to SF medical. I know this was in an earlier draft of the script (the same one that had Leah Brahms) but I didn't notice it in the movie (wasn't looking for it, though).
So my question is "is the line about Beverly going to SF medical in Nemesis at all?"
I've seen many references to Beverly going to SF medical. I know this was in an earlier draft of the script (the same one that had Leah Brahms) but I didn't notice it in the movie (wasn't looking for it, though).
So my question is "is the line about Beverly going to SF medical in Nemesis at all?"
^^^ No problem! You're right that it isn't in the movie, but I believe (though I could be wrong) that it was filmed, so the scene might pop up in an eventual special edition.
This is also the scene where Beverly tells Jean-Luc that she'll save the last dance for him, so it is a P/C question after all.
This is also the scene where Beverly tells Jean-Luc that she'll save the last dance for him, so it is a P/C question after all.
Is it canon if we've not seen it? I like to think of her as still on the Enterprise and as it wasn't in the movie I can cling to that dream.
In my book it isn't necesarily canon even if we *have* seen it. But I won't go into that...
Anyway, I think that officially extra scenes can only be counted as quasi-canonical, unless they make it into a director's cut or something like that. Besides which, what are you worried about? In your version of reality, they were together from AGT to FC anyway, right?
^ Wasn't that your idea? Besides they can get together again. Be like the Richard Burton ~ Elizabeth Taylor of Trek.
Besides they can get together again. Be like the Richard Burton ~ Elizabeth Taylor of Trek.The people who write the novels have decided to count it. I imagine that if they made another movie they'd discount it if that served their purposes though.
Occasionally in this thread we've lamented that they've not got it together, but haven't they actually got themselves a perfect relationship? It's a strong friendship with a common concern for Wesley, they dine together, attend concerts together, have breakfast together (without Picard being image-conscious that the crew will jump to conclusions). Surely this is practically a middle-aged marriage?
Excellent point. In many ways, this is a very fair assessment. They give every impression of being a couple in episodes like "The First Duty," when, as we've discussed, Picard acts in loco parentis with Wesley. He's actually more involved in Wesley's life than I imagine many stepfathers of grown children are.
Jean-Luc and Beverly have arranged their friendship in a way that they have all the intimacy of a marriage, just without the, well, intimacy. Really, they're deluding themselves if they think that, by doing this, they've escaped the problems of a superior-inferior relationship onboard a starship.
It's sad, really. I can see them telling themselves that this is the only way it can work, and that they will just be happy with what they have, but they're denying themselves both the chance to have real happiness together, and the chance to form meaningful relationships with anyone else.
If they'd gotten to the middle-aged-marriage stage naturally, that would be one thing, but I doubt whether Jack and Beverly's marriage would look like that, had Jack lived.
And yet we never saw them together so that’s actually hard to say with any certainty. All we got of Jack was the gag gift and being very earnest with Wesley from beyond the grave. You really have to see a couple together to know if they have chemistry. P/C have chemistry even if they don't act on. C/C who knows? He might have been too serious for her, they might have grown up and grown apart, perhaps he was secretly gay – who knows. I'm afraid any idea that Bev and Jack would still be having HOT SEX and have a great marriage is just wishful thinking.
All right, all right, I take your point. Enough about Jack and Bev...
I suppose the question for all of the P/C shippers out there is: are we willing to settle for seeing Beverly and Jean-Luc in a friendship that has turned into a de facto companionate "middle-aged marriage," as you said, or do we just want the HOT SEX?
Or are we going to be true romantics and say that they could have had both, if only TPTB had let them?
I suppose the question for all of the P/C shippers out there is: are we willing to settle for seeing Beverly and Jean-Luc in a friendship that has turned into a de facto companionate "middle-aged marriage," as you said, or do we just want the HOT SEX?
Or are we going to be true romantics and say that they could have had both, if only TPTB had let them?
Posted by Naraht:
I suppose the question for all of the P/C shippers out there is: are we willing to settle for seeing Beverly and Jean-Luc in a friendship that has turned into a de facto companionate "middle-aged marriage," as you said, or do we just want the HOT SEX?
Well we want more, but given TPTB seem keen to kill it, we are happy for any sort of relationship at all. By Nemesis, we are happy to have them in the same scene together.
Whilst I wanted them to get together, perhaps it was best that they didn't. Television relationships are generally more entertaining at the unrequited stage, like Odo and Kira.
Good for you! I'm amazed at how many P/C shippers think that part of the job is talking down Jack Crusher at every turn. And how many Star Trek fans think part of the job is talking down poor Wes at every turn.
Nemesis was actually a lot better than FC, though. In NEM we had her sitting on his desk and reminiscing about what he was like way back when. And in INS we had her fastening his collar for him... how middle-aged can you get?
I know. I'm not sure what TPTB would have done with them if they had got together, and I don't think TPTB were sure either. So maybe it was all for the best, but somehow it feels defeatist to say that.
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