Spoilers Orphan 55 grade and discussion thread

[CuriousCaitian]

It has been suggested that this might amount to a building theme of the season.

In "Spyfall" we saw Gallifrey destroyed thanks to the arrogance of its ruling class – note that Rassilon (one of the founders of Time Lord society, resurrected and back in charge again since the Time War) and his cronies were thrown off planet by the Doctor in "Hell Bent", so assuming they didn't return in the meantime, they weren't even on-planet to receive the Master's punishment despite the fact that they are the ones most deserving, while the Shobogans out in the wildlands probably all died.

Now in "Orphan 55", we see Earth destroyed thanks the arrogance of its ruling class – somebody said that the rich people who had created this environment didn't bother trying to fix the planet before it was too late because they could just leave to go somewhere else, and the less rich and less punishment-worthy were left behind to turn into scientifically implausible rage monsters.

Two points don't necessarily make a pattern, but the similarities are striking...

.

Thanks for another great reply! As a theory, it holds enough weight not to be summarily dismissed, and you could consider it something of a step up in scale from one of the apparent themes of season 11. If nothing else, Chibnall seems determined never to let us forget just how epically lousy people can be.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Nup that ending still grates on me. I watched it again and it was shameful how they just are back in the Tardis and hop off onto new adventures, and yes I know it's how it's written but it irks me that they could not have used that to go back pick up those other two people and save them but nup let them die it's not the actual future so fuck that let's go on adventures instead.

That bothered me as well.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That bothered me as well.

Thank you I don't feel so alone in frustration... The writing is terrible this season

 

[Guy Gardener]

Thank you I don't feel so alone in frustration... The writing is terrible this season

Has the Doctor given Yaz and Ryan the talk about "No shagging" on the TARDIS?

Time head babies doubling her dating pool, that sort of thing.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Thank you I don't feel so alone in frustration... The writing is terrible this season

Whitaker, and Capaldi before her, both deserved better writing. I love Jodie as the Doctor but she hasn't been given any really memorable, meaningful material yet.

The writing for Capaldi rarely achieved great heights, and while I am hardly a Clara hater, I will agree without hesitation that she overstayed her welcome by a minimum of a season, possibly more. Once the "Impossible Girl" story line and the Anniversary had passed, I felt that she offered little of interest to the show.

But at least Capaldi has some memorable episodes. Jodie, and again I stress that I LOVE HER PORTRAYAL OF THE DOCTOR, I fear that she will go down as the least memorable incarnation. Not because of gender or online backlash, but because of poor management at the story telling level.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Whitaker, and Capaldi before her, both deserved better writing. I love Jodie as the Doctor but she hasn't been given any really memorable, meaningful material yet.

The writing for Capaldi rarely achieved great heights, and while I am hardly a Clara hater, I will agree without hesitation that she overstayed her welcome by a minimum of a season, possibly more. Once the "Impossible Girl" story line and the Anniversary had passed, I felt that she offered little of interest to the show.

But at least Capaldi has some memorable episodes. Jodie, and again I stress that I LOVE HER PORTRAYAL OF THE DOCTOR, I fear that she will go down as the least memorable incarnation. Not because of gender or online backlash, but because of poor management at the story telling level.

I agree with all of this. I'm loving Jodie as the Doctor but she's let down by bad writing and they should give Chibnall the boot he's not a good writer. I'd welcome Moffat back gladly at this point. Same for Peter Capaldi he was let down by some bad writing every now and then.

 

[Starkers]

People know Chibnall didn't write this one, right?

It's crazy that this one, which I wasn't fond of, was actually done by the writer whose episode of S11 I liked best!

That being said my problem all along has been that Chibnall isn't in the same league as RTD or Moffat as a writer, and it really showed last year when he was writing so many episodes. I expected this season to be better because Chibnall was writing less but three episodes in its his episodes I've enjoyed more! c'est la vie!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

People know Chibnall didn't write this one, right?

It's crazy that this one, which I wasn't fond of, was actually done by the writer whose episode of S11 I liked best!

That being said my problem all along has been that Chibnall isn't in the same league as RTD or Moffat as a writer, and it really showed last year when he was writing so many episodes. I expected this season to be better because Chibnall was writing less but three episodes in its his episodes I've enjoyed more! c'est la vie!

Well for my part I apologise... I was under the impression it was him.

By the way had a nice private laugh while Watching Dr Who and playing Prototype when the producers name came on screen. Alex Mercer

 

[Starkers]

Well for my part I apologise... I was under the impression it was him.

By the way had a nice private laugh while Watching Dr Who and playing Prototype when the producers name came on screen. Alex Mercer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_12)#Episodes

Outside of a cowriting credit on Fugitive of the Judoon Chibnall is only writing the first two and last two episodes of the series.

 

[Butters]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_12)#Episodes

Outside of a cowriting credit on Fugitive of the Judoon Chibnall is only writing the first two and last two episodes of the series.

But he still has overall control of what scripts go to production. There must be a pile of unfilmed scripts, probably since Eccleston, and he still went with Orphan 55. He doesn’t get a free pass for bad episodes just because he didn’t write them.

 

[Starkers]

But he still has overall control of what scripts go to production. There must be a pile of unfilmed scripts, probably since Eccleston, and he still went with Orphan 55. He doesn’t get a free pass for bad episodes just because he didn’t write them.

I don't think there are a pile of unfilmed scripts, they commission writers for specific episodes, there isn't a slush pile. Someone may correct me but I suspect the only unfilmed script is the Stephen Fry one. Which interestingly, if we're talking about rubbish episodes, is the episode that was supposed to air in the slot Fear Her eventually took.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chibnall is the show runner. Doesn't the show runner choose the scripts?

Meanwhile, in another thread, there was mentioned that Chibnall didn't read reviews. Even if that were true, and it's doubtful, he must see ratings, and the ratings are terrible. I think I read yesterday that they are down a million viewers.

At some point, they are going to have to change direction back to what made the show successful if they are going to continue long term.

 

[Starkers]

He doesn't choose scripts. He will commission people to write an episode same as Moffat and RTD, and he'll be involved in the back and forth process of polishing said script, so yes to some degree he takes blame for poor scripts but should be lauded for good ones. The point being he doesn't have a pile of scripts that he chooses ones from. He'll commission scripts to fit the series, and if one is rubbish it'll be a question of trying to improve it rather than getting someone else to write a new one at the last minute. There's a reason Fear Her is set in a housing estate and is really low budget, they probably didn't have time to do anything else.

Frankly aside from the preachy bit at the end I still don't think Orphan 55 is teh worst episode evah like some people are suggesting. I enjoyed it more than Fear Her or The Black Spot to just pick two off the top of my head. Every season has good episodes and less good episodes.

I think the glory days of Tennant and Smith are gone tbh. The show isn't new anymore and there's way more competition, and more pertinently better quality competition these days and people's viewing habit have changed. Think Netflix etc. You could bring back RTD and Tennant and while there would be an upsurge, I doubt it'd last that long.

Realistically I think we either need to accept that this is how successful Who is now, and so long as the BBC are happy to keep making it be happy it's still going, or accept it might be time for another fallow period.

 

[Lonemagpie]

People know Chibnall didn't write this one, right?

It's crazy that this one, which I wasn't fond of, was actually done by the writer whose episode of S11 I liked best!!

Yeah, same here- Loved Hime's show last season, hated this...

 

[Butters]

He doesn't choose scripts. He will commission people to write an episode same as Moffat and RTD, and he'll be involved in the back and forth process of polishing said script, so yes to some degree he takes blame for poor scripts but should be lauded for good ones. The point being he doesn't have a pile of scripts that he chooses ones from. He'll commission scripts to fit the series, and if one is rubbish it'll be a question of trying to improve it rather than getting someone else to write a new one at the last minute. There's a reason Fear Her is set in a housing estate and is really low budget, they probably didn't have time to do anything else.

Frankly aside from the preachy bit at the end I still don't think Orphan 55 is teh worst episode evah like some people are suggesting. I enjoyed it more than Fear Her or The Black Spot to just pick two off the top of my head. Every season has good episodes and less good episodes.

I think the glory days of Tennant and Smith are gone tbh. The show isn't new anymore and there's way more competition, and more pertinently better quality competition these days and people's viewing habit have changed. Think Netflix etc. You could bring back RTD and Tennant and while there would be an upsurge, I doubt it'd last that long.

Realistically I think we either need to accept that this is how successful Who is now, and so long as the BBC are happy to keep making it be happy it's still going, or accept it might be time for another fallow period.

I think it’s time again for a break, and a proper rethink. There’s no reason why it can’t compete with anything Netflix is doing. Chibnall has, quite rightly, made changes, and kept much of the core premise. Unfortunately, his choices haven’t been received well.

Put it to bed I say, except for the 60th Special, we still want that. Bring it back in five years, fresh minds, new ideas, and another gap in the Doctor’s story, full of mystery and intrigue, ready for a brand new set of fans to embrace it.

 

[bigdaddy]

No, Doctor Who doesn't need a break, it needs better sci-fi show runners. The show can literally be about anything in the universe and beyond.

Once again for 40+ series now the writing has never been constantly good. They have a great doctor, and I love her having three great friends who seem to be able to act. There isn't a need for a hard break and reboot, just some better management and more fun storylines. Preachy isn't needed but all good sci-fi is about the time it was written. Whitmore deserves to be able to be the Doctor for at least three seasons. Just give her more stories like Spyfall and it will be okay.

And the glory days of Tennant cracks me up. He had so many horrible storylines, Rose overstayed her welcome too. It was cheesy and just as bad in a different way.

 

[The Wormhole]

Someone may correct me but I suspect the only unfilmed script is the Stephen Fry one.

IIRC, I think every season, at least during the RTD and Moffat years had a few unfilmed scripts, or at least story outlines that could be pulled up in an emergency situation, like they did with Fear Her when Stephen Fry's episode fell through. Still, you're right, they don't keep the unfilmed scripts/outlines around as a slush pile to pull from for future seasons to use. Indeed, usually once the season is done, the writer is allowed to use the story as they deem fit. Although one notable case of the unused story idea being revisited in a later season, there was an unused story in season 5 about the Doctor meeting a disgraced Sontaran. That disgraced Sontaran eventually evolved into Strax.

 

[Doctor Bombay]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[publiusr]

That was... not good. Where to start with this?
* That heavy handed exposition at the end - yikes!

Agreed.

The science was bad.

See here:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/environment/20-things-you-didnt-know-about-oil

Most of our oil has already bubbled to the surface and been consumed by bacteria. If we burned the rest of our fossils fuels--it would result in higher sea levels--but the outcome would be more like what Earth was in the Carboniferous Period when things were more lush.

The carbon dioxide in Venus’ atmosphere yields approximately 90 bars partial pressure. The mass of CO2 responsible for this is a close order of magnitude to the CO2 locked into carbonates in the Earth's crust.
from:
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showth...nse-atmosphere-of-venus&p=2501736#post2501736

So, in order to get Earth to Orphan 55, you would have to mine the white cliffs of Dover--and quite a bit more--to get there.

That end bit also seems to misunderstand how time-travel works in Doctor Who - the Doctor does not travel to possible time-lines

That I don't have a problem with. This TARDIS may be quite a bit more capable. We saw the third Doctor--also an Environmental Doctor--go sideways once.

Heck--the Third Doctor might have tried to talk to the Russians--I mean the Dregs--first...not at the last.

The Russian-phobia is what might push us closer to nuclear war....but...

In terms of nukes, I thought Semipalatinsk might have been better than Novosibirsk--but maybe the Russians were able to use genetics--and Novosibirsk is the real EUREKA after all.

Now--one part of the science is real. The life forms that gave us oil to start with--the real Dregs--polluted themselves to living below ground when their pollustion--oxygen--drove them downwards.

Life up here had to evolve to deal with this very reactive gas. CO2 breathers just aren't mobile (unless gene-hacked). You have to have oxygen to be active. Just us being warm blooded means we need a lot of resources--and ultimately--it is oxygen which kils us--that's why they sell anti-oxidants
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4072655/

Now, we should burn less fossil fuel--even without climate change--because we need to conserve that. We need it for chemical foodstocks and energy density.

If we ran out of fossil fuel--or simply went cold turkey as Greta wants--a lot of folks would be hurt.

Hope?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...-dioxide-emissions-700-million-tons-2030.html

 

[Australis]

Whitaker, and Capaldi before her, both deserved better writing.

This, for emphasis. Far better writing. You look at something like Years and Years and it's way ahead.

I love her having three great friends who seem to be able to act.

Errrrmmm... OK? Not a fan, except for Bradley. Maybe. Again I think it's more down to the writing. Too much time split across too many actors, but then you have the problem of one companion - a snogging interest (because that's where audience/producers would go because trope) or radical feminists in space (which I'd actually enjoy, I think).

When it comes to writing, I was always under the impression the showrunner set the arc up, came up with an episode description, say about a page long, then handed out the assignments.