Original or remastered effects?

[Grant]

Yikes that shuttle takeoff looks clumsy. Could it be Dr. Sevrin's flower children in their stolen shuttlecraft at the end of "The Way to Eden"? Or maybe Matt Decker took a few nips from the bottle before tackling the planet killer.

I thought I asked in an earlier post but maybe I'm delusional-- In the remastered "Errand of Mercy", when Sulu reports that "a large number of Klingon ships has just arrived", do we get to see them? All the original effects had was what looked like a reverse animation of a photon torpedo hitting Enterprise.

Yes, they do show a number of Klingon ships in that shot in the remastered.

That shot of the shuttle taking off WAS from Galileo and I see what you mean--although i doubt that the clumsiness was something that happened because they couldn't do anybetter--I just think they wanted to show it as not a perfect tractor-type controlled take-off but perhaps just a loose manuel take-off. Overall the space shots in "Galileo..." look fantastic.

There were literally thousands and thousands of changes done in the remastered versions--nearly a hundred in 'Corbomite.." alone and you think you can prove something by pointing out examples you feel are not great?

It was a herculean project with modest budget and incredible time restraints and they did a fantastic job.


After watching the episodes dozens of times between 1970 and 2007, I can tell you it was great fun to watch them again and see all the changes they made--many great, most good and several not so good.
It also required really studying them, because at any second there could be a change, most subtle in the non-exterior shots.
So to see them all--you had to study the shows very carefully and that was something i suspect a lot of folks don't do after seeing them for 10,15 or 20 times.

So even if you end up still liking the old FX better--you still get to see an alternate version of virtually every space shot and dozens and dozens of other shots, mattes, image stabilization for time-lapse, redone hand phaser shots, force fields, etc, etc, etc.
Even noticed several times where they added reflections on table tops when the little 'tri-monitors' are activated.

A lot of fun and a good mental exercise as well, while re-watching one of your favorite shows ever.

And for scarcely a handful of bucks over the current price for the DVD sets that have only one version or another.

 

[Grant]

[
And nobody ever said 'everybody has a blu-ray player'--that's non-sense.
And none of your friends have a PS# which IS a blu-ray player either? That's weird since many people that age play video games.

Nope, most of my friends aren't into video games.

I am not anti-Bluray. And I like when things come as DVD/BR combo sets so I will have that BR as a backup if I ever do get one.

Most people I know are more into streaming or getting digital content for their tablets than buying any physical media (DVD or BR) these days.

Now I am still a collector of physical media at heart but the thing about Blu-ray you know there is going to be a new format 10 years from now too. Whatever you buy is going to eventually be obsolete. My DVD player works just fine and I am happy with watching DVDs. When I do need to buy something new I will definitely buy a Blu-ray player, but it just isn't a priority for me personally.

I also understand you weren't saying everyone has a Blu-ray player but my main point is a whole lot of people don't have one. At least I think less people have switched to Blu-ray then in the days when people switched from VCR to DVD. Blu-Ray is definitely better than DVD in terms of quality. But I don't think it is as major of a shift as VCR to DVD was.

Well, if they're not into video games--then they wouldn't have PS3 either--what is with your friends--do they have a life? I guess so since they're not always home playing video games!
I just have bought plain Blu-ray players since I don't play video games either.

But at any rate DVD players have bottomed out at--what?---$25 for some players and if 'regular' (non-3D) Blu-ray players soon bottom out at about $50--unless you're really strapped why not get one instead.

Shoot you don't even need to purchase Blu-rays to enjoy them--Redbox rents Blu-rays for 30 cents more than DVDs and there are multiple ways to get free first day rentals from Redbox.
I average 1 to 2 redbox rentals per week for the last two years and i have never paid full price a single time.

 

[Melakon]

Sphere, thanks for those links.

I likely will go for the remastered dvd's since that way I don't have to buy anything else to watch them. If I'm lucky, I might be able to afford the whole series next month, else September. Or maybe I'll wait until I finish my Enterprise reviews.

 

[Grant]

Sphere, thanks for those links.

I likely will go for the remastered dvd's since that way I don't have to buy anything else to watch them. If I'm lucky, I might be able to afford the whole series next month, else September. Or maybe I'll wait until I finish my Enterprise reviews.

That's cool--like i said Amazon is selling the 3 season DVD remastered bundle for $87--if you buy from Amazon OR you could check out the upcoming Best Buy set the other poster mentioned.

Also Wiki and other sites like memory Alpha have detailed breakdowns of the changes.

So after watching the episodes for the remastered for the first time--you could go back and see the rundown of all the changes--some that you may not have caught.

It's TOS there's very little chance you won't enjoy them!

 

[Melakon]

Yes, I had been checking the Amazon price right before I did the original post. Hopefully the price will stay under $100 long enough until I'm able to get it. I've used Amazon a few times, and they've not disappointed me. They also have a distribution center near me, so it might ship from there.

 

[Commishsleer]

I have owned every format of TOS from some very low quality VHS tapes in the 80s to the DVD, HD, and blu-rays.

I can take or leave the new FX. Overall I believe the new FX are better than the old. Sometimes the obviously CGI ship fly-bys look cartoonsish but they're better than nothing. And TOS was written and directed knowing it had limited costly special effects so you can understand the story with bad (in today's standards) and sometime totally absent special effects shot.

I'm old school so I personally would pick the original shots if allowed only one but since I have the blurays and can look at the old effects whenever I want I always watch the episodes with the new effects.

The best thing about the remastering IMO was getting rid of the spots and film blemishes. That makes getting any remastered version worthwhile

 

[CaptainDave1701]

I am in the process of building the Round 2 AMT K-7 Space Station and this really has come into play in reference to the build. Yes the kit does bring back a lot of childhood memories but the one that is missing is how it was originally intended to look.

When doing searches online so that I may determine as to how I am going to paint the model I am finding many pictures from the remastered episode to include the DS9 episode but original stills are few and far between. This gives me cause for concern as I would wonder if what was originally done in the 60's in reference to effects could soon be forgotten.

As far as the research on the model though I wonder why they chose to put a big K7 right over a bunch of windows anyway since the original model onscreen had no markings at all. At least none that could be seen on screen anyway.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Just a note: if you don't have a high definition TV, don't bother with Blu-Ray. This is especially true if you want to watch Star Trek or other "full screen" TV series. The picture will not fill the screen and be quite smaller, because the format is made to fit the 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio. Widescreen movies will always have the black bars and the top and bottom, which probably won't be an issue, but Star Trek is in 4:3 and it will have the black bars on the top and bottom as well as the side. It's in the same space as a widescreen movie, but inhabits only the center of the screen. This makes the picture a good 30% smaller, I would guess. Also, the picture quality of DVD is still excellent in standard def, so there's no reason to convert if the equipment you have is working fine. If your set breaks, there are plenty of working models at thrift stores, Goodwill, Craig's List and garage sales for very little money.

My HDTV crapped out last year and I haven't been able to replace it yet (the cheapest is still more than I can spend before fixing a car and my fence). Thankfully I still had an old, trusty tube set. Also luckily, I never got rid of my Trek DVDs after I got the Blu-Rays because standard def fills the screen.

As for which versions to choose, I'd go for the original effects if you're used to them after all this time. If you're anything like me, you'll find the new effects interesting and enjoyable (some even help the stories), but you'll prefer what you always had. If all you can swing is one, get the one you KNOW you'll enjoy.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

Just a note: if you don't have a high definition TV, don't bother with Blu-Ray. This is especially true if you want to watch Star Trek or other "full screen" TV series. The picture will not fill the screen and be quite smaller, because the format is made to fit the 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio. Widescreen movies will always have the black bars and the top and bottom, which probably won't be an issue, but Star Trek is in 4:3 and it will have the black bars on the top and bottom as well as the side. It's in the same space as a widescreen movie, but inhabits only the center of the screen.

Rectify this by accessing your players set-up menu and changing the output settings to "4:3" TV and "480/576i" appropriate to your region.

 

[Grant]

Just a note: if you don't have a high definition TV, don't bother with Blu-Ray. This is especially true if you want to watch Star Trek or other "full screen" TV series. The picture will not fill the screen and be quite smaller, because the format is made to fit the 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio. Widescreen movies will always have the black bars and the top and bottom, which probably won't be an issue, but Star Trek is in 4:3 and it will have the black bars on the top and bottom as well as the side. It's in the same space as a widescreen movie, but inhabits only the center of the screen.

Rectify this by accessing your players set-up menu and changing the output settings to "4:3" TV and "480/576i" appropriate to your region.

Yep, every Blu-ray player I've seen has this ability. My kids have had a Blu-ray player hooked to an old CRT TV for a couple of years and have not had that problem.

 

[Lance]

The remastered effects seem to be tastefully done. What I mean is they don't try to really deviate from that original broadcast, trying to keep in spirit of the limitations, trying to just show a better effect, not trying to make something wildly new (though we got more variation for the planets, like Mudd's spectacular planet). We don't get whole battles made up from nothing basically.

Agreed, and I think this is the strength of the remastered effects. They're very sympathetic to the originals for the most part. There's one sequence where the planet killer attacks the Enterprise in "The Doomsday Machine" where the ship basically has the physics of a physical model, ie it tilts as though it's an actual optical effect. Don't know why that particular shot sticks in mind but I liked it when I saw it, made me feel like the SFX guys were well aware of how important it was not to fiddle about with them too much.

Having said that, there are some moments where I definitely prefered the tactile feel of the original model work, like the sky shots of the Enterprise in "Tomorrow is Yesterday". And while it's kinda cool to actually see Klingon ships in "Errand of Mercy", it does feel like history has been meddled with a bit, given we all know the Klingon ship didn't really debut on screen till season three.

On the whole though I like both sets of effects, but have no hesitation in giving the remastered versions the tick of approval.

 

[Melakon]

Buying an HD tv and buying a Blu-Ray player just so I can start buying Blu-Ray disks isn't a luxury I can afford anymore, and could take months or even next year before I'd have enough money. Due to my dabbling with 3d, I am interested in seeing how effects were changed. But CGI doesn't thrill me as much as it probably should, simply because I've worked with 3d and know how some of the effects could have been accomplished. Two things I've never quite learned to do though, are particle effect explosions and transporter effects in 3d. And I never seem to have my ships moving fast enough in battle scenes. My capital ships come out okay, but my fighters always look like they're going twenty miles an hour, even with moving starfields.

 

[Hober Mallow]

The best thing about the remastering IMO was getting rid of the spots and film blemishes. That makes getting any remastered version worthwhile

Exactly. The crystal clear transfer was for me the only selling point, and I wasn't disappointed.

The new FX I can take or leave, but I'm mostly irked by the changes made before the last remaster that have been retained and which are ever present no matter which version you watch, like the addition of the starship rumble sound.

 

[trevanian]

. My capital ships come out okay, but my fighters always look like they're going twenty miles an hour, even with moving starfields.

Have you considered adding some aberrant motion to the ships? When a fastmoving car swerves a little, there's some back&forth fishtailing, and likewise if you're doing course corrections and such, you'd have the space equivalent.

Having the camera struggle to keep the ship framed (a la THE RIGHT STUFF, which is a good example of selling speed with rubber bands & tape) also might give the speed illusion a bit more oomph.

 

[Hober Mallow]

When doing searches online so that I may determine as to how I am going to paint the model I am finding many pictures from the remastered episode to include the DS9 episode but original stills are few and far between. This gives me cause for concern as I would wonder if what was originally done in the 60's in reference to effects could soon be forgotten.

How would it be forgotten when it's right there in the episode? When you want to play an episode from the bluray you have to specify whether you want the original FX or the newer FX. The old FX haven't gone anywhere.

 

[Melakon]

. My capital ships come out okay, but my fighters always look like they're going twenty miles an hour, even with moving starfields.

Have you considered adding some aberrant motion to the ships? When a fastmoving car swerves a little, there's some back&forth fishtailing, and likewise if you're doing course corrections and such, you'd have the space equivalent.

Having the camera struggle to keep the ship framed (a la THE RIGHT STUFF, which is a good example of selling speed with rubber bands & tape) also might give the speed illusion a bit more oomph.

Yes, I usually have my tiny ships like shuttles and fighters doing some slight side-to-side or up-down rocking motion, and motion blur going on. Where I've not been able to get it right is if they're attacking a capital ship. I never get them moving fast enough to look like high speed craft when the target is in frame. Instead they look like they're out for a leisurely Sunday drive and take a few potshots as they slowly go by. Maybe I'm just staging everything too close together when trying to get the angles I want. I usually render in short 5 or 10 second clips and assemble from there.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Rectify this by accessing your players set-up menu and changing the output settings to "4:3" TV and "480/576i" appropriate to your region.

Yep, every Blu-ray player I've seen has this ability. My kids have had a Blu-ray player hooked to an old CRT TV for a couple of years and have not had that problem.

Really?!! No shiznit? Holy crap, I feel pretty tech stupid and this is the first freaking thing I'm gonna do when I get home tonight!

Wow, thanks and sorry for the mis-info.

And thanks for sparing me a huge pair of cuz I should have thought of this....

 

[BillJ]

And thanks for sparing me a huge pair of cuz I should have thought of this....

When I got my first 16:9 TV I spent two weeks watching 16:9 TV shows (like Enterprise) with black bars on the top and bottom because I didn't realized I needed to change the player settings. So you're not alone.

 

[CaptPapa]

My financial situation won't change unless I start playing Lotto. I'm disabled, can't work anymore. There is enough money coming in once a month for rent and food and small expenses, but anything nearing or over $100 I have to budget several months in advance. I can play DVD's on my computer, but not Blu-Ray. And I didn't even start buying DVD until 3 or 4 years ago. Twenty-five years ago I was earning about 3 times what I get now in disability. So money is tight. Life was much better when I could just stop by the video store and order the entire 10-lot set of TOS videotapes that had just been released without checking the bank balance.

I would recommend Netflix. I don't know where you are, or if Netflix is available everywhere, but if it's an option, I think it's a great deal. I pay $7.99 a month and can stream all the Star Trek I can take - including TOS remastered. I turned off my $80 a month Direct TV almost two years ago now and don't miss it a bit.
I own one blu-ray DVD player, still have VCRs hooked up and nary a flat screen in sight. My house is still filled with picture tube TVs and I'm cool with that too.

 

[Melakon]

I know about Netflix, but I'm the type of film buff who prefers having a physical library of tapes, disks, or whatever. As I understand pay-for-stream services like Netflix and Hulu+, and perhaps even what Amazon's doing, you're only buying a one time watch of that episode. Maybe Amazon is allowing downloads, but I don't think so. THe other problem I have with considering such services is my internet connection is not reliable. Recently my service was out for over a month, and didn't get repaired until the 10th. Since then, I have not gone 24 hours without the line dropping out several times a day, sometimes for over an hour. Suppose you lose connection in the middle of a streamed program you've already paid for?