Orci strikes back

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mountie1988, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed. Franklin is spot on on all counts. Excellent example of using brain energy for constructive purpose. Salute! :bolian:
     
  2. Franklin

    Franklin Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "But that doesn't mean the new films are any good, in my opinion." That's better.

    No one has said there aren't valid negative opinions. No one person or opinion is being criticized solely for not liking the movie or being negative. The reality is, if there are 87 positive remarks for every 13 negative remarks, that seems to favor the view that it was a very well-received movie. I hate Red Lobster (with very good reasons, I'd say), but I must be in a small minority because it's a popular restaurant. So, who am I to disabuse the large group of people who dine there with my very good reasons for not doing it? Why waste my time trying to convince them the food is crap? Live and let live. I'll just drive on by.

    I'm sure everyone who writes for a living is thinking, "From your mouth to God's ears, please," on that one.

    Yep. And?
     
  3. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    The problem lies with something you quoted just below:


    The bolded statements about "have to listen" (or the equivalent) are what's wrong. Artists NEVER "have to listen" to "fans". They can do so if they CHOOSE--but they are under no obligation to do so--whether brand new or simply continuing to work within the creative framework originated by another. Being a "fan" of an existing creative property does not confer extra "rights" to said "fans".


    Bullshit distortion of what I've posted. Creators are entitled to give back just as good as they get when "fans" decide to vomit all over their work in the crassest of ways. If everyone is free to express their views--that must include those whose works are being criticized. The faux outrage at Orci is that he had the temerity to throw back some of the shit being flung at him at the people who were lobbing it by the bucketful. How dare he be so uppity. :rolleyes:

    The bottom line is all the whining about "having to listen to the fans" represents the unwarranted sense of entitlement by "fans" who are miffed that Abrams and co., in this case, did not put out a Trek film that fit their pre-conceived notions of what "proper Trek" should be. These self-appointed guardians of The Committee for the Way Things Ought to Be believe that "giving the fans what they want" should be the default position of those who work in established franchises (by which they mean themselves--the "true fans"). Some of them go further and suggest that anyone who actually likes the films that did not get committee approval from the "true fans" are somehow lacking in basic intelligence or some other such drivel.

    Any viewer is free to complain about the films. No viewer is entitled to be consulted by the filmmakers beforehand to make sure he will be satisfied with result. And "fans" are not "owed" anything.
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay by me. You must have gotten into Star Trek with TNG - which, as time went on REALLY DID move away from TOS' roots in a major fashion. GR retconned the hell out of Star Trek as TNG moved forward.
     
  5. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Well said, Franklin.

    We reach, brother!
     
  6. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Yep.

    As much as TOS was some of the smartest writing of its day, it was still largely a western in tone, set in space: Ride into town, whoo the lady of the episode, shoot up the bad guy, ride out. Now not every episode was that basic. But the philosophy between TOS and TNG are miles apart.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  7. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure that it is correct to defend the behavior for which Orci apologized, thereby stating regret for the things you defend, unless the apology was not sincere.
     
  8. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The basic gist is, if you overreact to troll bait, you lost.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I don't think the apology was sincere nor do I have a problem with it. There's only so many years you can listen to butthurt fans who take this stuff way too seriously before finally snapping.
     
  10. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't make him wrong for what he did. Hell, he was a lot nicer than I wold have been about it.

    In hind sight he could have seen that he could have handled it different and apologized---again, something the other parties in that shit slinging session have yet to do that I've seen. Or he might have apologized so that people would shut the hell up about it--which is fine too.

    I completely understand and applaud what he did. Every so often fandoms need someone to come along and say "Get a life".
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The difference is he didn't say "Get a Life!" because he didn't like how people were obsessed with his work, he said "Fuck Off!" because he didn't like how they criticized his work.

    Abrams & Co did start that fanbase baiting, with all that "Nacelle's Monthly", "Not Your Father's Star Trek", "Fans bash it as fun, watchable" stuff. With that they directly addressed hardcore fans, telling them that their old lame Trek was gone and replaced by new, better, fresh Trek. And now that some of those hardcore fans didn't like their Trek, they get angry. It's hilarious.
     
  12. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    I'm quite certain I am correct to defend behaviour I consider worth defending, regardless of whether the perpetrator of the behaviour agrees. It is MY view that I am offering, after all.

    I don't think Orci needed to apologize, nor would I have offered an apology in his place. He is free to do as he wishes. My "defence" is of his right to respond in kind to over the top nonsense from his critics. How he feels about the whole thing is irrelevant to how I view it.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    There have been some pretty horrible things said about this creative team over the last five-years. We as Star Trek fans should be ashamed as a group instead of crying about one of the creators backhanding the shitty attitude back at us.

    If someone dislikes a movie or TV show to the point they can no longer be civil about it, perhaps they should move on.
     
  14. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    There is no material difference. He has the right to do exactly as he did. If his "critics" feel free to sling shit, they should have no expectation that shit won't be slung back at them. It's that simple.
     
  15. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    ooooh he used the F WORD! My ears! Had I been in his place, I'd left scorched Earth behind me when I went off. The man has dealt with this shit for four years, he admits his snaps every so often when it gets out of hand. So? He's human.

    As for baiting the fans: So fucking what? Harlan on fans that rings true more so every day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  16. Franklin

    Franklin Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I go back to TOS, but I liked TNG fine. However, yes, they are miles apart in many ways, and I think they should be thought of and appreciated that way. TOS was smartly written, but it also had its campy and swashbuckling sides that TNG didn't have. More often than not, action drove the story and Kirk was almost always the center of the action.
    The typical TNG format seemed more like detective show or mystery movie centered around an ensemble cast with different roles to fill in solving the story. It opened with an initial mystery or conflict, then moved on to showing its effects, there would be analysis, a crisis, then finally a revelation and a resolution.

    They're so different, it frankly strikes me that there's really no logical reason to expect someone to like both.
     
  17. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    TOS was very much pulp-magazine style sci-fi: Light, quick, fun sci-fi, that you could carry in your back pocket. Sure you had a recurring cast of characters, but overall the series was very much more like an anthology style of story telling.
     
  18. Franklin

    Franklin Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which, to be frank, is probably why TOS tended to translate to the big screen better than TNG did. Consider those who thought Picard was a bit out of character as "action Picard" in the TNG movies (especially FC) compared to the diplomat and intellectual he often was in TNG.
     
  19. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Nope. "The new movie sucks" is an opinion. "The new movies are awesome" is an opinion. Pointing out the fact that the lack of fan input does not automatically logically follow that the movies must by definition be good is a fact. And that fact has no bearing whatsoever on my or anybody else's opinion of the new films.
     
  20. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    But then, what would you do with all that free time?