Opinions on TMP

[kkozoriz1]

V'Ger wasn't looking to blow up the Earth. It was looking for it's creator and was going to remove what it saw as an impediment to it's mission.

KIRK: Where is Lieutenant Ilia?
ILIA PROBE: That unit no longer functions. I have been given its form to more readily communicate with the carbon-based units infesting Enterprise.
SECURITY GUARD: 'Carbon-based units'?

V'ger couldn't consider that it's creator wasn't like itself. As they say, we all create God in our own image. It's the name of the original story, In Thy Image.

As far as the black hole goes, just imagine that Decker said wormhole instead it it'll be easier on you. As the latest film shows travel via black hole not only can transport you in space bit also in time. Who know how long V'Ger was out there subjectively. It's a big universe.

Watch the originals of The Day the Earth Stood Still or War of the Worlds and compare them to the remakes. No every movie is made better by adding laser blasts and explosions.

 

[Therin of Andor]

by turning it into a freaking god

No, it was seeking God.

take over the world.

No, "to touch the creator".

turning into a god

Nope.

to blow it up

Nope, just to eradicate an infestation that was preventing the completion of its mission.

Now that would have made for a much better movie.

Until Wiis, too, are superceded.

 

[Pauln6]

Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth.

You've totally missed the point. The living-machines' planet just repaired V'ger and it returned to its mission to learn all that is learnable. But its amassed knowledge enabled it to achieve consciousness and sentience - and began to seek out its creator. NASA was from Earth, but V'ger saw the human populace as an annoying infestation getting in the way of it being about to touch the creator. There was no mission to "destroy Earth", but V'ger mistakenly didn't recognize the "carbon units" as sentient.

So, in other words, they fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth?

I never said that the aliens intended to destroy the Earth or that they wanted to hurt anybody. What I said is that they made an enormous mistake when reprogramming/rebuilding the Voyager probe which causes it go all Skynet on humanity. The Voyager probe was rebuilt by the aliens because they respected its mission to "Learn about the universe" so they helped it along a bit. Helped it along by turning it into a freaking god the size of a solar system! Overkill much? And then once it explored the entire universe it returns to its creator where it proceeds to, you guessed it, take over the world. OF COURSE!

I just find the whole V'ger plot incredibly silly. I can deal with the bad costumes and extremely slow pace, but the completely ridiculous plot (IMO) kills the film for me. The entire idea of a primitive piece of technology traveling through a black hole (????) and turning into a god only to return to Earth centuries later to blow it up is just hard to swallow. What if it was a Wii that went through the black hole instead? Would we have ended up with the ultimate gaming machine spreading motion controls throughout the universe? Now that would have made for a much better movie.

I thought V'ger's origin was rather clever at the time. It's certainly no dumber than most sci fi movies. The writers didn't have such a huge raft of other sci fi plots to call upon for 'inspiration' as modern reveiwers. The movie was very visual to try and capitalise on the vibe of 2001 but modern audiences relate more to the action of Star Wars rather than 2001 so TMP looks slow, ponderous, and lacking in action. Not right or wrong, that's just the way it is. However, much the same as NuTrek, a few tweaks could have remedied some of the remaining flaws. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The aliens in the original V could have just mined the rings of Saturn for water after all.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

to blow it up

Nope, just to eradicate an infestation that was preventing the completion of its mission.

Nomad...

 

[Kelthaz]

by turning it into a freaking god

No, it was seeking God.

A bunch of advanced aliens turn a primitive 20th century probe into a godlike being of nearly infinite power.

That was from my original post. By god I was referring to the fact that the Voyager probe was turned into an nearly invincible being of unimaginable power. Calling V'ger a godlike being or even a god (a superior being) is fairly accurate.

take over the world.

No, "to touch the creator".

Nope.

I know, I believe I said that in my last post. It wasn't going there to destroy humanity, but that would be a side effect of seeking the creator. Machine is built for good but ends up going all wonky and trying to wipe out humanity.

to blow it up

Nope, just to eradicate an infestation that was preventing the completion of its mission.

Yeah, I agree. Machine is built for good but ends up going all wonky and trying to wipe out humanity.

I thought V'ger's origin was rather clever at the time. It's certainly no dumber than most sci fi movies.

Oh, I've seen far dumber. Dumb is fine in silly movies (Star Trek XI, Austin Powers, Galaxy Quest, etc.). Dumb is also fine when the movie is good enough to overcome the bad plot. Of course, TMP wasn't a silly movie and the only real strength it had was its plot.

TMP was trying to be a deep, intellectual, and philosophical film. And, I love that, Star Trek is at its best when it's talking about humanity or examining (sometimes preaching) a sociological issue. Unfortunately TMP wanted to have its cake and eat it too. You can't have an intellectual film when the plot, the entire basis of the film, is so stupid it hurts your head if you think about it for more than three seconds. If the writers had spent a bit more time polishing the script and coming up with a more plausible origin story for V'ger I think I would have really enjoyed TMP.

 

[RAMA]

STTMP: DE improved my respect for the movie, but yes the very script is flawed...I will always contend if the movie had focused on Spock's story as in Tam Elbrun's story (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tam_Elbrun) in Tin Man, that it would have been a much better film.

RAMA

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

I agree completely with that assessment. Instead we got a suped-up Nomad. Pity, too...

 

[Kelthaz]

STTMP: DE improved my respect for the movie, but yes the very script is flawed...I will always contend if the movie had focused on Spock's story as in Tam Elbrun's story (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tam_Elbrun) in Tin Man, that it would have been a much better film.

RAMA

That's a great idea. Spock had a great story going on during TMP, but it was overshadowed by the characters staring out the windows. A bit more focus on what's going on in Spock's head and his relationships with Kirk and Bones would have been fantastic.

 

[Stardate]

I really want to touch on the matter made by Kelthaz. Why Vger was so huge and powerful. We know that it was the living machines who build a ship so Vger could finish its programming. So i want to put out my 2 cent. Could it be that the Vger ship build around Voyager 6 probe was a living machine ship just like the living machines that build it and it was f.e. smiler size as Enterprise when it started its voyage but when it pattern or gain more knowledge it became bigger and more powerful until it gain 12 power rating.

 

[Avon]

my favorite bit of tmp is Decker's Funbone.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I really want to touch on the matter made by Kelthaz. Why Vger was so huge and powerful. We know that it was the living machines who build a ship so Vger could finish its programming. So i want to put out my 2 cent. Could it be that the Vger ship build around Voyager 6 probe was a living machine ship just like the living machines that build it and it was f.e. smiler size as Enterprise when it started its voyage but when it pattern or gain more knowledge it became bigger and more powerful until it gain 12 power rating.

That's unquestionably the case. The inhabitants of the Machine Planet didn't have all the knowledge of the universe. They didn't build the entire Manhattan Island-sized ship for Voyager. I've think they only added the small island complex where the boarding party finds the probe. It provided Voyager extra motive power and computer capacity and the rest grew over the centuries as it amassed power and knowledge. Much like Earth launched a probe and got back something beyond their capabilities and imagining, the Machine Planet did as well with the refurbished Voyager.

 

[Joe_Atari]

STTMP: DE improved my respect for the movie, but yes the very script is flawed...I will always contend if the movie had focused on Spock's story as in Tam Elbrun's story (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tam_Elbrun) in Tin Man, that it would have been a much better film.

Thanks RAMA; as big a TMP and TNG fan as I am I never made the connection between that aspect of the plots. I did immediately notice though that TNG reused the optical of V'ger "evolving" for the destructive Tin Man wave.

 

[T'Girl]

Shatner had made it known, perhaps for salary-raise leverage, that he was more interested in pursuing a movie career and thus was unlikely to want a long stint on TV with "Phase II".

During this time period, wasn't Shatner scraping by doing dinner theater and sleeping in the back of a pick-up truck?






.

 

[number6]

Shatner had made it known, perhaps for salary-raise leverage, that he was more interested in pursuing a movie career and thus was unlikely to want a long stint on TV with "Phase II".

During this time period, wasn't Shatner scraping by doing dinner theater and sleeping in the back of a pick-up truck?
.

That still didn't stop him from negotiating a higher salary and was going to only appear in about 13 episodes per season..or something like that.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

He didn't receive anything, though, because the series was never produced. Living in the back of the truck going from play to play doesn't sound like much fun...

 

[number6]

It seems better than some of his guest shots on Columbo.

 

[Therin of Andor]

During this time period, wasn't Shatner scraping by doing dinner theater and sleeping in the back of a pick-up truck?

His homelessness was due to a messy divorce from Gloria Shatner in the early 70s, IIRC, but well before TMP commenced filming, Shatner was already happily married to Marcy Lafferty (Chief DiFalco in TMP) and doing well again. He was actively pursuing a movie career at the time (but don't count on movies such as "Kingdom of the Spiders") and would have been very unsure about committing to five constraining years on a TV show like "Phase II", which is what the regular TV contracts of the day would have expected of a regular cast member, so he told Roddenberry he'd sign for a half season only first.

Later, he happily signed to do a long stint with "TJ Hooker" because of lucrative promises to be able to write and direct episodes.