Opinions on TMP

[darkshadow0001]

Everything about this film was just... off.

The uniforms, the music, the script, the dialogue.

Sorry, can't agree. Loved the uniforms, loved the music!

I came to TMP quite naive about TOS, knowing mainly only random episodes of TOS and TAS. Luckily for me, I got so swept away by the pre-publicity newspaper interviews about the making of TMP, and a friend's enthusiastic description of the gala preview held in Sydney, that I bought and devoured the novelization and the LP soundtrack, then went to see the movie (about five times in as many weeks). Still my favourite film of all time, perhaps now tied with JJ's ST.

I don't know if I love the uniforms, but I did like the movie a lot. It really isn't all that bad. I think the problem is many think that a Star Trek film has to be like Star Wars, or the JJ Abrams remake. But TMP adhered to what Star Trek is about, going after the unknown.

I agree, it wasn't the most action-packed film, and it did drag a bit, but for the 70's, it was still a really great film. I think the worst Star Trek film has to be Insurrection.

 

[Maurice]

It took a very long time for the movie to turn a profit that made the expense and risk worthwhile, and the resulting change in attitude toward the property on the part of the folks who owned it was obvious in the actions they took after the release and the way TMP was received.

I'm not going to disagree, but I think it's worth pointing out that taking a while to make back investment was the norm prior to the modern blockbuster era (which was just getting underway at that time). And while TMP didn't make Star Wars or Jaws kind of money, it made a considerable sum over time.

Creative bookkeeping for taxes aside, the executives at Paramount must have known what the film actually cost in the end (Phase II and other costs aside). And, unless they were dumb, must have understood that they misfired by greenlighting and selling a picture before they had a workable script, and hiring a VFX house that had never done a film before (with all the resulting mess that followed when panic set in).

They clearly would have/did realize they could make money with the properly, especially because they could reuse so much stuff already built. I agree that what direction they could have gone in might well have been a disaster.

If anything was gonna stop a sequel, it was the lack of a script the studio liked. Meyer talk about this in his memoir, and how he had to write TWOK in 12 days because, within a script in that time, they couldn't get ILM's bid and that would have stopped the project cold.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I still think it's dubious to think a film that turned a tidy profit...

It took quite a while to make enough of its money back to be considered a success Paramount wanted to emulate. TMP was still on the suburban and countryside cinema circuit eight months later.

 

[Maurice]

The first-run domestic return on what was estimated to be a 45 million dollar movie was pegged at about 56 million gross for quite a while. These much larger numbers that everyone throws around now were not showing up in the trades then, believe me.

Part of the problem here is that Hollywood bookkeeping is an arcane science. Rentals vs. gross vs. box office gets very confusing.

Based on what I've read, I believe TMP's 55/56 million was not gross, but in rentals, which typically represent between 33% and 40% of the actual gross.

According to Variety (and I'm trying to dig up the article, but no luck, yet), TMP was at 39 million in rentals (or between 97 to 117 million gross) by the end of 1979, just weeks after its release, and topped out at 55 or 56 in rentals (156 to 165 million gross). If that's accurate, it made 70% of its box office in 4 weeks. And those are numbers for US and Canada only.

It's one reason that the 139 million for gross worldwide seems low to some, and the 175 million number that David Gerrold mentioned around the time of TWOK seems more likely.

If anyone has links to a contemporary industry source that confirms or differs with these numbers I'd love to see it. I'm not trusting of contemporary sources (like many websites) because they tend to copy data from one another and they're rarely accurate.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah but of course the aborted costs of Phase II are folded into the overall costs of the movie.

You want to start digging into how studios budget and do accounting - on any movie - you're going to drown in quicksand. The numbers are what the numbers are.

And if one's looking for "subtle," Star Trek isn't a particularly rewarding place to start.

 

[josh.heinrichs]

I have one thing to say about TMP.

Klingons.

Where were those Klingons for the rest of movies? Scared the shit out of me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If that's accurate, it made 70% of its box office in 4 weeks. And those are numbers for US and Canada only.

But... films were released very differently in 1979/80. Here in Sydney, ST:TMP opened in just one large old cinema, in the CBD. People wanting to see the movie had to travel into the city, or wait a few weeks, until some prints started to make their way around the Paramount-affiliated suburban. And then more distant suburbs, and then finally independent cinemas, makeshift cinemas in community halls (in school vacations) and country towns.

These days, new films open in at least one (and usually more) theatrettes in suburban cineplexes.

 

[Gojira]

TMP, despite its flaws, is one of my favorite Star Trek movies. I had been a fan since 73 when I was 10 so seeing the original cast in a major motion picture was a thrill. Yeah, the uniforms were not good at all. But I loved how they reunited everyone and got back on the ship. Spock's arrival on the Enterprise is a very moving and dramatic entrance and is a favorite part of the movie for me. I love the epic reveal of the redesigned Enterprise, that scene never gets old for me. Kirk struggling to get back to his peak performance as a Captain while engaging the younger Captain Decker in a battle of egos is good character development. The uncovering that V'Ger is actually Voyager VI was, and still is, a very cool plot twist.

Shatner's portrayal of Kirk was pretty much dead on to how he was during the original series but in later movies Shatner played Kirk with more softer edges than he had been in the original series.

 

[Nardpuncher]

The way is see TMP is if someone was going to watch it for the first time I'd tell them, though it sounds insulting to the movie, is to prepare to NOT be excited. Though they may be mesmerized and fascinated by the visuals, the music,and the intriguing premise of Vejur.

I remember the first time I saw it (on VHS in 1987, when I was 13) and I thought after "Wow...that was dull!" Then I watched it again the next day before I had to return it and enjoyed it more. I knew I was not in for a thrill-fest but something more thought-provoking (not that it's that cerebral of a movie) and well...well we all know what we're talking about when we talk about the good points of the movie.
It's kind of like the 1984 Dune movie in many ways.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I often tell first-timers they should experience it the way I did in December 1979. Read the novelization first!

For several months after becoming a Star Trek fan, I couldn't find TOS fans who loved the movie like I did, even at gatherings of Trek fans. Finally, I found some fellow avid TMP fans at a convention and, like me, they'd come to the film with very little prior knowledge of TOS and TAS.

 

[Jeyl]

I have one thing to say about TMP.

Klingons.

Where were those Klingons for the rest of movies? Scared the shit out of me.

Those were the best Klingons ever. Mark Leonard ladies and gentlemen, Mark Leonard.

Now, since this is one Star Trek movie that I watch more than others, I will go over one element which drives me crazy. It's not the slow pacing and it's not the brown/grey colored "I can see your...." uniforms. It's the Ilia/Decker characters.

I don't get it. Why did Gene Roddenberry think it necessary to bring in two characters who were totally new to the series, dedicate so much of the story to and at the same time get rid of them like they were just a one episode character? I know they weren't there to bring in a new audience, because all we really wanted to see was Kirk and the rest of the crew. But these two? Blah!

It's like he totally forgot about the original characters he already had until someone reminded him that "Wasn't there a Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Sulu, Uhura, Scotty, Chekov, Rand and Chapel?" and than just threw them in there.

I blame Gene Roddenberry 100% for this because he did the same freaking thing for Star Trek: The Next Generation with Riker and Troi! Seriously, they practically share the same story right down to the dialogue. Both men were stationed on the girl's home world, and both left without saying goodbye to which the girls both acknowledge they couldn't either. Only unlike Ilia and Decker, they were regular characters who finally tied the knot decades later.

 

[Psion]

The characters were originally part of the Phase II crew. Along with Xon, they were intended to be fresh, new blood for younger audiences. When the series transitioned into a movie, rather than drop them, they were written to be expendable so that we got to witness the birth of a new lifeform.

Roddenberry definitely seems to be behind their characters, as, when Next Generation started, Riker and Troi came in with the exact same dynamic. I guess he felt he had unfinished business with the character concepts.

 

[Kelthaz]

TMP is a very poor film that ignores everything that made TOS so much fun to watch. The characters are reduced to hollow shells of their former selves and the plot makes 2001: A Space Odyssey look exciting. The sets and costumes, although a minor point, are absolutely atrocious and almost painful to the eyes. And the SFX, although very technically impressive, are dull and lifeless.

Oh, and the "antagonist", for lack of a better word, is just ridiculous. A bunch of advanced aliens turn a primitive 20th century probe into a godlike being of nearly infinite power because, why, a little too much free time on their hands? Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth. I mean, that's just ... dumb. Shinzon made more sense.

 

[Psion]

TMP is a very poor film that ignores everything that made TOS so much fun to watch. The characters are reduced to hollow shells of their former selves and the plot makes 2001: A Space Odyssey look exciting. The sets and costumes, although a minor point, are absolutely atrocious and almost painful to the eyes. And the SFX, although very technically impressive, are dull and lifeless.

Oh, and the "antagonist", for lack of a better word, is just ridiculous. A bunch of advanced aliens turn a primitive 20th century probe into a godlike being of nearly infinite power because, why, a little too much free time on their hands? Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth. I mean, that's just ... dumb. Shinzon made more sense.

I'm in my calm place. I'm in my calm place. I'm in my calm place.

 

[Ghrakh]

Saw it in the theater in 1979 (or maybe early 1980) and haven't seen it since. I remember being very excited when it was released, too.

 

[Kelthaz]

TMP is a very poor film that ignores everything that made TOS so much fun to watch. The characters are reduced to hollow shells of their former selves and the plot makes 2001: A Space Odyssey look exciting. The sets and costumes, although a minor point, are absolutely atrocious and almost painful to the eyes. And the SFX, although very technically impressive, are dull and lifeless.

Oh, and the "antagonist", for lack of a better word, is just ridiculous. A bunch of advanced aliens turn a primitive 20th century probe into a godlike being of nearly infinite power because, why, a little too much free time on their hands? Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth. I mean, that's just ... dumb. Shinzon made more sense.

I'm in my calm place. I'm in my calm place. I'm in my calm place.

I appreciate the restraint.

 

[Pauln6]

TMP is a very poor film that ignores everything that made TOS so much fun to watch. The characters are reduced to hollow shells of their former selves and the plot makes 2001: A Space Odyssey look exciting. The sets and costumes, although a minor point, are absolutely atrocious and almost painful to the eyes. And the SFX, although very technically impressive, are dull and lifeless.

Oh, and the "antagonist", for lack of a better word, is just ridiculous. A bunch of advanced aliens turn a primitive 20th century probe into a godlike being of nearly infinite power because, why, a little too much free time on their hands? Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth. I mean, that's just ... dumb. Shinzon made more sense.

Many elements of Trek and other sci fi franchises are incredibly dumb but still enjoyable. Jeez, has anybody seen Fifth Element? Ok it was a comedy but it was unbelievably sexist and the 'serious' elements of the plot were ludicrous. No fan dare hold a microscope up to the plots of Star Wars for fear of being parodied by Family Guy... oh wait...

Trek holds up fairly well, although NuTrek is edging towards Fifth Element territory, and even as a child, I was impressed with the look of TMP (the ship has never looked better in my view) and the subtext/allegory of the plot.

Admittedly, anybody coming to it fresh now would be less impressed since it has been done to death with more action and more up to date special effects.

 

[Maurice]

There was a line in the TMP novel that I wish had been in the film, where, upon finding Voyager, McCoy (I believe) quotes Longfellow: "I shot an Arrow into the air", which I think speaks to unexpected results.

I shot an Arrow into the air
It fell to earth I know not where,
For so swiftly it flew, the sight
Could not follow it in its flight.

I breath'd a Song into the air
It fell to earth, I know not where.
For who has sight so keen and strong
That it can follow the flight of a song?

Long, long afterward in an oak
I found the Arrow still unbroke;
And the Song from begining to end
I found again in the heart of a friend.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why did Gene Roddenberry think it necessary to bring in two characters who were totally new to the series, dedicate so much of the story to and at the same time get rid of them like they were just a one episode character?

In the script of the unfilmed telemovie, "In Thy Image", which morphed into ST:TMP, the Ilia Probe doesn't get whisked off with V'ger (or N'sa, as in NASA). It reverts to a small burnt out mechanism, which had originally been the floating core of the hot/glowing, tentacled probe of light that had snatched the real Ilia from the bridge. Chekov had named that first probe "Tasha", because it had a pearlescent glow that reminded him of his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring he knew as a child.

As they investigate the burnt out device, suddenly the real Ilia materialises, unharmed, just as Decker and V'ger merge.

Will Decker does vanish with V'ger to explore the unknown, as in TMP, but as his character was a featured identity in all twelve completed scripts and proposed treatments for the "Phase II" series, just how he was planned to return had yet to be decided. Whichever script would had been chosen to follow the telemovie would have had an added scene, wherein Decker was somehow retrieved, to be reunited with his ship and Ilia.

As it was assumed that William Shatner was unlikely to remain with "Phase II" as a regular, beyond the first half-season, plans were on hand for Decker to become captain and Kirk to be promoted as admiral (to make guest appearances). That promotion idea ended up being used for TMP, too. Shatner had made it known, perhaps for salary-raise leverage, that he was more interested in pursuing a movie career and thus was unlikely to want a long stint on TV with "Phase II". (Unless it was wildly successful, of course.)

To preserve the Vulcan, Xon, for the TV series (or future movie sequels), they invented the disposable Sonak - and asked the actor already cast as Xon to guest as Commander Branch instead.

Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth.

You've totally missed the point. The living-machines' planet just repaired V'ger and it returned to its mission to learn all that is learnable. But its amassed knowledge enabled it to achieve consciousness and sentience - and began to seek out its creator. NASA was from Earth, but V'ger saw the human populace as an annoying infestation getting in the way of it being about to touch the creator. There was no mission to "destroy Earth", but V'ger mistakenly didn't recognize the "carbon units" as sentient.

 

[Kelthaz]

Oh, and of course the super advanced aliens fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth.

You've totally missed the point. The living-machines' planet just repaired V'ger and it returned to its mission to learn all that is learnable. But its amassed knowledge enabled it to achieve consciousness and sentience - and began to seek out its creator. NASA was from Earth, but V'ger saw the human populace as an annoying infestation getting in the way of it being about to touch the creator. There was no mission to "destroy Earth", but V'ger mistakenly didn't recognize the "carbon units" as sentient.

So, in other words, they fuck it up and send it off to destroy the Earth?

I never said that the aliens intended to destroy the Earth or that they wanted to hurt anybody. What I said is that they made an enormous mistake when reprogramming/rebuilding the Voyager probe which causes it go all Skynet on humanity. The Voyager probe was rebuilt by the aliens because they respected its mission to "Learn about the universe" so they helped it along a bit. Helped it along by turning it into a freaking god the size of a solar system! Overkill much? And then once it explored the entire universe it returns to its creator where it proceeds to, you guessed it, take over the world. OF COURSE!

I just find the whole V'ger plot incredibly silly. I can deal with the bad costumes and extremely slow pace, but the completely ridiculous plot (IMO) kills the film for me. The entire idea of a primitive piece of technology traveling through a black hole (????) and turning into a god only to return to Earth centuries later to blow it up is just hard to swallow. What if it was a Wii that went through the black hole instead? Would we have ended up with the ultimate gaming machine spreading motion controls throughout the universe? Now that would have made for a much better movie.