Opinions on Michael Eddington

[Spot261]

The Cardassians were duplicitous and dangerous empire that would go on to become a part of a more dangerous and destructive regime. And there's no telling what devilish schemes the obsidian order would have concocted even if the wormhole wasn't open. Full conquest of Cardassia and installation of a democratic government, as well being put on track for Fed membership would have been in everybody's interests including the Cardassians.

None of which comes under the criteria of a just war. In fact as noted Jus post bellum specifically precludes annexation.

Jus ad bellum (pre criteria for waging the war) requires that doing so fulfills a just cause (specifically to prevent the imminent loss of life) and also meets the criteria of last resort.

If you are arguing that you believe such a conquest to be a moral action fine (although I'd disagree), but the term "just war" is an internationally recognised one with a significant pedigree and a core set of principles and criteria. It isn't a throwaway term intended to be used ad hoc according to one's personal taste.

 

[fireproof78]

The Cardassians were duplicitous and dangerous empire that would go on to become a part of a more dangerous and destructive regime. And there's no telling what devilish schemes the obsidian order would have concocted even if the wormhole wasn't open. Full conquest of Cardassia and installation of a democratic government, as well being put on track for Fed membership would have been in everybody's interests including the Cardassians.

One, the Federation does not impose its will upon other powers, and that includes the Cardassians. They work in cooperation with their allies to negotiate a mutual peace. The preemptive strike attitude would have the Federation in constant war with its neighbors, including the Klingons and the Romulans. Since the Romulans had attacked the Federation they could do it again, and the Federation should attack them again, and subdued them completely. I mean, isn't that the whole plot of Star Trek Into Darkness, and Admiral Marcus? So, Admiral Marcus was right?

Secondly, installation of democratic government will not work in every culture. The Federation certainly didn't demand the Klingons to become democratic as part of the Khitomer Peace Accords. Cardassians are a militaristic society, and attempted a civilian government but that was not always successful. So, perhaps those internal power struggles should be left to be settled by Cardassians?

Finally, none of this is "just" or equal in grievance that the Cardassians committed against the Federation or justifies the Maquis private war.

 

[Voth commando1]

Morality and grievances are fidgety things, what higher longing to beings with souls have than glory and the complete triumphs over all enemies?

"The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms." Genghis Khan leader of the Pax Mongolica-conquest and eternal dominion, the triumph of your ideology or religion, victory what higher calling is there?

 

[fireproof78]

Morality and grievances are fidgety things, what higher longing to beings with souls have than glory and the complete triumphs over all enemies?

"The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms." Genghis Khan leader of the Pax Mongolica-conquest and eternal dominion, the triumph of your ideology or religion, victory what higher calling is there?

What greater longing? To live at peace with one's neighbors, to discipline's oneself and have control over your passions, to treat others the same way you would want to be treated.

Personal vendettas lead to vigilantism, revenge and hatred of entire groups of people.

 

[Voth commando1]

What greater longing? To live at peace with one's neighbors, to discipline's oneself and have control over your passions, to treat others the same way you would want to be treated.

Personal vendettas lead to vigilantism, revenge and hatred of entire groups of people.

Its not about petty vendettas its about leaving a mark that will last throughout the sands of time.

 

[Nyotarules]

Morality and grievances are fidgety things, what higher longing to beings with souls have than glory and the complete triumphs over all enemies?

"The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms." Genghis Khan leader of the Pax Mongolica-conquest and eternal dominion, the triumph of your ideology or religion, victory what higher calling is there?

The Federation is not run based on the pov of ancient Terran men. That is left to the Mirror universe, if you want to accept puny humans rule a galaxy where Vulcans and Andorians exist.

 

[Nyotarules]

Its not about petty vendettas its about leaving a mark that will last throughout the sands of time.

Hitler left a mark, all 6 million of them plus millions more. So did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot

 

[Voth commando1]

The Federation is not run based on the pov of ancient Terran men. That is left to the Mirror universe, if you want to accept puny humans rule a galaxy where Vulcans and Andorians exist.

Who said it needs to be run on Terran men alone? Only that the everything the ancient terrans bequeathed to their descendants should be applied as useful.

 

[Voth commando1]

Hitler left a mark, all 6 million of them plus millions more. So did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot

Did his empire last? Did the Soviet Union stretch across the world as Lenin and Trotsky desired? No it didn't so there marks were wiped away.

 

[Nyotarules]

Who said it needs to be run on Terran men alone? Only that the everything the ancient terrans bequeathed to their descendants should be applied as useful.

Mass murder, enslavement, prejudice, continuous war...yeah I can see where the Federation will find such things useful.

 

[Nyotarules]

Did his empire last? Did the Soviet Union stretch across the world as Lenin and Trotsky desired? No it didn't so there marks were wiped away.

So if they had won they would get the thumbs up from you? You seem to admire people with militaristic, wanna take over the planet tendencies.

 

[Voth commando1]

So if they had won they would get the thumbs up from you? You seem to admire people with militaristic, wanna take over the planet tendencies.

There morality isn't the discussion, there achievements in the politico-military sphere is,

All conquerors do terrible things, no one who's victorious doesn't go home with a bucket of blood stained on his soul, but we're not discussing the state of their souls are we?

 

[sojourner]

What good is leaving your mark on the world if it only receives scorn?

 

[Voth commando1]

What good is leaving your mark on the world if it only receives scorn?

The fine gentleman in my profile picture was both a hero and a villain-that's something to celebrate.

Glory is its own virtue and should be kept separate from morality and the debates therein.

 

[Nyotarules]

The fine gentleman in my profile picture was both a hero and a villain-that's something to celebrate.

Glory is its own virtue and should be kept separate from morality and the debates therein.

Tell that to the dead and those left to mourn

 

[fireproof78]

Its not about petty vendettas its about leaving a mark that will last throughout the sands of time.

So negative marks should be espoused? I can leave a mark that leaves millions dead and whole planets ruined? That is a good thing?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

All conquerors do terrible things, no one who's victorious doesn't go home with a bucket of blood stained on his soul, but we're not discussing the state of their souls are we?

Does the name "Phlegethon" mean anything to you? Because if you and your ISIS compatriots continue on your present course, it will.

 

[sojourner]

The fine gentleman in my profile picture was both a hero and a villain-that's something to celebrate.

Glory is its own virtue and should be kept separate from morality and the debates therein.

LOL, sorry, don't recognize who that is from the blurry art. Guessing it is a fictional character? In which case he is neither a hero nor a villian, just someone's bit of imagination.

Glory is the refuge of the vain. Do not confuse it with Infamy.

 

[SoullessMinion]

Glory is its own virtue and should be kept separate from morality and the debates therein.

I'm sorry, this statement is absurd. Even setting aside whether or not glory is a virtue, do you know what the word "virtue" means? "Behavior showing high moral standards. A quality onsidered morally good or desirable in a person."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Eddington does not know jack shit about moral behavior.

Just remember what he did to Cing'ta.