Opinion: the show has improved since Berg and Harberts left
- Thread starter ISS_Einstein
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I can't describe how much I love this.
Done.
Season 2 has been improving episode by episode, until "The Red Angel", when it stalled slightly
Imagine the leap forward it would take without a tasteless hack like Kurtzman hanging around
I was actually thinking of formulating a thoughtful reply to this, as I think Kurtzman has his strengths and weaknesses, but then I went and looked at your last 15 posts dating back to July 2018, and they were all snarky and bitingly negative, and I realized that's probably not a productive use of my time.
To all appearances, Kurtzman disposing of Berg and Harberts and taking over the show himself is what improved it.
After "The Red Angel", I'm not so sure. That episode really left a bad taste in my mouth after thinking it over.
Shit happens from time to time. Even TOS, TNG and DS9 had some bad episodes, even during their best seasons.
I wouldn't worry so much just because of one episode
Not worried. Not going to dump the show at this point. Though it seems like they did a faceplant on what was the most pivotal episode of the season.
Haven't come around to watch "The Red Angel". So i can't judge the episode yet. Will watch it today.
Seems to be a "love it or hate it" episode.
"Borg and Herbert." 
I didn't hate it. It just doesn't feel like it gels with what came before earlier in the season.
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Gonzo
Guest
The pacing has indeed improved which is good but part of that could be due to the changes made to the overall plot arc once Berg and Herbert's were given the heave ho.
It means they cant really hang about, for instance the start of Red Angel was pretty blunt, Spock just walking in and telling Michael he has worked out how to catch the traveller.
All of them discussing how to catch a future version of Michael while she is standing there listening to them still makes me smile, if the current version knows their plan then the future version knows it to.
I still enjoyed the episode though as I understand why they felt the need to move things along a bit faster.
I don't mind Tilly either she is like a walking talking ice breaker and is always good value.
It could also be to do with the potential for a Pike/Enterprise spinoff once they saw that both Pike and Spock had been well received by fans.
It means they cant really hang about, for instance the start of Red Angel was pretty blunt, Spock just walking in and telling Michael he has worked out how to catch the traveller.
All of them discussing how to catch a future version of Michael while she is standing there listening to them still makes me smile, if the current version knows their plan then the future version knows it to.
I still enjoyed the episode though as I understand why they felt the need to move things along a bit faster.
I don't mind Tilly either she is like a walking talking ice breaker and is always good value.
It could also be to do with the potential for a Pike/Enterprise spinoff once they saw that both Pike and Spock had been well received by fans.
Only in a fixed-timeline model. In the usual Trek model, the arrival of the time traveler has created a new timeline that changes what happened in her own past, so she wouldn't remember any new events that happen as a result of her presence. (Spock Prime doesn't remember Kelvin Spock's version of events, only his own.)
And by 'usual Trek model' you mean the one made up for the reboot movies, instead of how it worked in the previous Star Trek...
What??? Of course not! It's the normal way most Trek time travel has worked from the beginning, the same way most time travel in science fiction in general has usually worked for generations. Kirk and Spock remembered their own timeline after changing it in "Yesteryear." Sisko and Bashir remembered theirs after changing it in "Past Tense." I could also mention Marty McFly remembering his original timeline after he altered it in Back to the Future, or Russell Johnson remembering the original history after he changed it in The Twilight Zone: "Back There," or the dinosaur hunters remembering the original history when they got back in Bradbury's 1952 short story "A Sound of Thunder." And those are far from the only examples. It's the normal rule that time travelers retain the memory of the timeline they came from, not the new timeline their actions create. Yes, there are some works of fiction that show their memories changing (like Looper), and some that inconsistently do it both ways depending on the story (like Legends of Tomorrow), but those are less common.
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Gonzo
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Except we have been told it's prime timeline so it is fixed.
I suspect that we could see some kind of reset by the end of the season, if so then yeah we are currently in an alternate timeline.
As it stands right now it's fixed from what we have been told.
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