Operation: Annihilate Question

[ZapBrannigan]

Greg Schnitzer once posted this photo to document the final appearance of women's uniform pants in TOS:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=4386245&postcount=36

He said it's from "Operation: Annihilate" but I just paged through the entire episode (HD version) at TrekCore and I can't find it. When does this scene occur?

 

[Botany Bay]

36:00 in.

"I'm putting you gentlemen in the hot seat with me!", Kirk thunders at his assembled staff, the majority of whom are female.

 

[Commishsleer]

Just after Kirk mentions in his log maybe being forced to kill a million people. The pictures should appear after the Enterprise flyby bottom of Page 20 in Trekcore. I think the scene with the pants lady takes about 7 seconds before the close-up of Kirk at the top of Page 21. So maybe Trekcore missed it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Thanks, guys. TrekCore missed that shot both times around. I've got it filed properly now.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Thanks, guys. TrekCore missed that shot both times around. I've got it filed properly now.

Yes, the scene is so short that it took place between TrekCore's screen grabs.

Ye of little faith.

 

[Commishsleer]

Well at least Trekcore grabbed moustached Kirk.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Thanks, guys. TrekCore missed that shot both times around. I've got it filed properly now.

Yes, the scene is so short that it took place between TrekCore's screen grabs.

Ye of little faith.

Greg, how did you compile your list of women's pants, by the way (apologies if you said that already). Was it eyeballed, with reference material, a combination, other?

 

[GSchnitzer]

Thanks, guys. TrekCore missed that shot both times around. I've got it filed properly now.

Yes, the scene is so short that it took place between TrekCore's screen grabs.

Ye of little faith.

Greg, how did you compile your list of women's pants, by the way (apologies if you said that already). Was it eyeballed, with reference material, a combination, other?

Just eyeballs, man. (I've been watching these things for almost 50 years now.) Once in a blue moon, I'll notice some interesting thing while I'm reviewing the original shooting script that makes me say "huh--I've never noticed that; I should double back and take a look at that scene in the episode itself." But first "discovering" something through some research-type material rather than simply through meticulously reviewing (and re-reviewing) the episodes is certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Mostly, I've gone through every episode, just about frame by frame, looking for appearances of props and set decorations. In my episode travels, I notice interesting things--costuming errors, microphones, lighting stands, dolly boards, gaffer tape makers on the floor, etc. These are more "happy discoveries" than they are things that I have intentionally researched or sought out.

"Women's uniform pants" is just one of the many things I've noticed and then kept track of.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Awesome.

 

[Nebusj]

Greg, how did you compile your list of women's pants, by the way?

Thank you for putting that sentence in my day. I'm going to be in a chipper mood until bedtime now.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Yes, the scene is so short that it took place between TrekCore's screen grabs.

Ye of little faith.

I recognized the red-uniformed babe from "Annihilate," but when the briefing room table shot didn't show up at TrekCore, I wondered if maybe this was a scene from an adjacent episode. You know how These Are the Voyages has revealed that they would finish an episode, eat lunch, and start the next one? And that same woman might have been around after lunch.

The trouble with that idea was, "Annihilate" was the last episode of the season, so there was no new one starting after lunch. And the prior ep was "City on the Edge," and this briefing room scene didn't look like that at all. So that narrows it down to "Annihilate" again.

It's funny that they bothered with such a brief scene. The same dialog could have been accomplished in Kirk's quarters.

 

[Christopher]

I recognized the red-uniformed babe from "Annihilate," but when the briefing room table shot didn't show up at TrekCore, I wondered if maybe this was a scene from an adjacent episode. You know how These Are the Voyages has revealed that they would finish an episode, eat lunch, and start the next one? And that same woman might have been around after lunch.

I doubt that very much, since the actress in question had a speaking role rather than just being a day player. That might have happened with extras, but presumably an actress in a speaking part would be released to go home once shooting on her episode ended, and whatever actors were needed for the rest of the day would be on call for the afternoon.

 

[mos6507]

I take it this episode passed the Bechdel test?

 

[Harvey]

I take it this episode passed the Bechdel test?

Nope.

According to the transcript, only Kirk, Spock, and McCoy have dialogue during this brief scene.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

What percentage of real life conversations between real life women pass the Bechdel test?

Are there any statistics available on this?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What percentage of real life conversations between real life women pass the Bechdel test?

Are there any statistics available on this?

The overwhelming majority of films have more than a single conversation in them.

Ask whether in a given day women talk to each other at any point about something besides a man, and you'll find that real life passes the Bechdel test 100% of the time.

 

[Christopher]

Besides, real-life conversations don't reflect the biases of an external writer. Whatever women discuss in real life will reflect their own thoughts and concerns. What gets discussed by female characters written by male authors in a male-dominated industry is a different matter. The Bechdel Test isn't about judging every individual conversation -- it's about what it shows in the aggregate about the inclusion and portrayal of women in fiction.

 

[plynch]

There's the Trek season by season Bechdel article out there somewhere recently. TOS S1 has 0 episodes that pass. Voyager is the best series. I can understand in the sexist 60s, I guess.

But as someone remarked, man, it is such a low bar. I am lately really pissed about women's treatment still, for personal reasons. Saw a woman who escaped ISIL who put all the women in a truck to give away as prizes, otherwise known as sex slaves. She was crying just to see her mom again.

 

[Maurice]

I recognized the red-uniformed babe from "Annihilate," but when the briefing room table shot didn't show up at TrekCore, I wondered if maybe this was a scene from an adjacent episode. You know how These Are the Voyages has revealed that they would finish an episode, eat lunch, and start the next one? And that same woman might have been around after lunch.

That's not the way it works. Actors are signed for a certain number of programs, and if footage of them appears in another episode they have to be paid. This applies to extras/background as well, which is why Trek rarely reused footage of people in the corridors even when it would have helped make the ship feel more alive; it wasn't "free".

 

[Mr. Hengist]

The overwhelming majority of films have more than a single conversation in them.

Yes, but in a film/entertainment narrative, at least a good one, the dialog advances the plot in some manner. Or at least explores character development.

Ask whether in a given day women talk to each other at any point about something besides a man, and you'll find that real life passes the Bechdel test 100% of the time.

But in this context, the conversation has to be interesting enough and relevant enough to the plot so as to warrant inclusion in the film/TV show.

So what is it that two women typically talk about that doesn't involve men/relationships; doesn't reflect negatively on the women; and actually would advance an interesting plot?

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