On season 4 of Buffy...should I be watching Angel?
- Thread starter JirinPanthosa
- Start date
I don't think the light or dark atmosphere is inherently better, but either one should have the actual stories match the atmosphere. With Angel I feel the things happening in Angel are just as silly as the things happening in Buffy and it doesn't match the dark atmosphere.
Like when Lilah killed Linwood it felt like something out of Austin Powers. And it seems so weird to me that Angel can have so many powerful enemies and still stay in an undefended home base with a well known address.
In Buffy season 1-5 they had the conceit where life goes on as usual even when all kinds of craziness is going on. In seasons 6-7 it's like they just kind of abandoned the conceit and made actions have consequences.
Like when Lilah killed Linwood it felt like something out of Austin Powers. And it seems so weird to me that Angel can have so many powerful enemies and still stay in an undefended home base with a well known address.
In Buffy season 1-5 they had the conceit where life goes on as usual even when all kinds of craziness is going on. In seasons 6-7 it's like they just kind of abandoned the conceit and made actions have consequences.
As people grow up they tend to see the world differently. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. The gang was able to ''sweep'' the bad stuff under the rug and move on quicker because they were still young and could easily deal with the monsters. But by season 6 they were struck hard with real-life problems (Buffy's depression, raising Dawn, Willow's addiction) and forced to be adults.
That's how I view seasons 1-5, and 6-7.
That's how I view seasons 1-5, and 6-7.
So much suckage!
Which is why I don't like to be too hard on them.
Unfortunately, being the Slayer isn't a 9-5 job with benefits.
Which is why I don't like to be too hard on them.
Unfortunately, being the Slayer isn't a 9-5 job with benefits.
The Watchers council assumes that a slayer has a 1-2 year lifespan, so they're not really accustomed to slayers who are not supported by their parents. Also as we see, their solution to slayers behaving badly is to just kinda murder them and hit reset. They don't know how to handle one slayer who is uncommonly good at staying alive and whose vampire ex won't let them murder the other one.
Hell, they basically murder any slayer who is about to turn 18 and isn't incredibly crafty.
Buffy seems to have dropped a couple of the themes in season 5, like Buffy exploring the true power of the slayer and basically telling the watcher council "Do what I want or eff off". I hope at some point in season 7 she calls them up and basically goes "Yeah, you work for me, so give me what I want right now."
Hell, they basically murder any slayer who is about to turn 18 and isn't incredibly crafty.
Buffy seems to have dropped a couple of the themes in season 5, like Buffy exploring the true power of the slayer and basically telling the watcher council "Do what I want or eff off". I hope at some point in season 7 she calls them up and basically goes "Yeah, you work for me, so give me what I want right now."
That's a pretty good observation about The Watchers Council. You are right. Those stuffy Watchers (Giles not included) aren't used to the Chosen One talking back and calling the shots.
Let's just say that, the Watchers Council is going to be ''less Watchy'' in the not-so distant future.
Let's just say that, the Watchers Council is going to be ''less Watchy'' in the not-so distant future.
This actually isn't the last we see of Warren. A skinless Warren, and his new girlfriend, Willow's former witch friend Amy, are two of Season 7's recurring bad guys.
I actually really enjoy Season 7 of Buffy. I don't think there really were any seasons of Buffy that I didn't enjoy overall, there are a few episodes I don't like as much, but there aren't enough to ruin any one season. Season 4 of Angel on the other hand is my least favorite season of the entire Buffyverse. I'm only on Season 8 of Buffy, and I haven't done any of the post-Season 5 Angel comics, so those aren't included. I still watch it when I watch the rest of the series, but that's just because I'm a compeltist, and even if it's not as good as other seasons it's still watchable. Angel Season 5 is a major improvement over Season 4.
Last edited:
I think you're exaggerating the number of powerful recurring enemies Angel had. Pretty much everyone fell under the umbrella of Wolfram and Hart, except for, eventually, Holtz and the Beast/it's boss. Wolfram and Hart never wanted to kill Angel, Holtz also decided he didn't want to kill Angel, and the Beast was barely even interested in Angel to start with, so it's not all that strange that he's living in a hotel instead of a fortress. Not to mention the fact that a fortress is only as secure as the people defending it, and Angel's not really in a position to hire security, nor used to ever needing to do so. He can generally handle himself.
Yeah but he has a 200 years long list of people whose lives Angelis destroyed and vampires who he either screwed over or who feel betrayed since he got his soul. Not to mention that some of his friends can't defend themselves on their own and for a few weeks he kept an infant child there. During which they only escaped by making a baby bomb.
Last edited:
You mean turn their collective backs on their BFF and instead trust the crazy psycho who tried to have them all killed less than three years prior? Yeah, cuz that happens everyday.
Buffy keeps doing this thing where they put characters in the main cast who have no natural reason to be hanging with the main group. So in episodes they don't naturally fit into they have to find ways to force them in. They've done it for Spike for a while and now they're kind of doing it for Anya.
In Angel I hope they make Wesley's direction a little more clear so they don't start doing it with him.
In Angel I hope they make Wesley's direction a little more clear so they don't start doing it with him.
Wow. What season are you on?
I'm at the start of season 4, two episodes in. So far this season Wesley kind of shows up to do something really helpful making Angel's group look like hapless children, acts butthurt, then goes off and bangs Lilah. It's frankly not that interesting. I hope they don't keep him in that role too long.
Buffy's handling of characters like Spike makes me glad Garak never became a regular on DS9. They only used him in stories where he made sense and those stories ended up being some of the series best. If they made him a regular they would have needed to constantly find excuses for him to be hanging around and he would have grown tiresome.
Buffy's handling of characters like Spike makes me glad Garak never became a regular on DS9. They only used him in stories where he made sense and those stories ended up being some of the series best. If they made him a regular they would have needed to constantly find excuses for him to be hanging around and he would have grown tiresome.
Unless this is a Garibaldi situation, which would be neat.
I think Wesley's character development in Angel, starting with the end of season 3 and into season 4 and 5, is some of the best I've seen for any TV character.
My daughter once told me, before I'd seen Angel, that Wesley was her favorite character in all of the Buffyverse. Having only seen him in Buffy, I told her she was crazy. But after I saw Angel season 4 and 5, I completely understood what she meant. Wesley's not my fav, but he has one helluva interesting journey.
Ok, so let me figure out this timeline.
May 10, 2002, Cordelia Chase ascends to become a higher being who is not allowed to intervene in mortal affairs.
May 17, 2002, Daniel Jackson ascends to become a higher being who is not allowed to intervene in mortal affairs.
October 20, 2002, Cordelia Chase interferes in mortal affairs and is sent back to Earth with no memory as a result.
February 19, 2003, Daniel Jackson interferes in mortal affairs and is sent back to Earth with no memory as a result.
Two shows running at the exact same time did identical arcs at the same time.
May 10, 2002, Cordelia Chase ascends to become a higher being who is not allowed to intervene in mortal affairs.
May 17, 2002, Daniel Jackson ascends to become a higher being who is not allowed to intervene in mortal affairs.
October 20, 2002, Cordelia Chase interferes in mortal affairs and is sent back to Earth with no memory as a result.
February 19, 2003, Daniel Jackson interferes in mortal affairs and is sent back to Earth with no memory as a result.
Two shows running at the exact same time did identical arcs at the same time.
Similar threads
