OMG...the DEFINITIVE origin of Superman coming!!!
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
- Start date
). Are they changing that?!?
No. My bad.
Must have read some comics wrong 20 years ago.
Must have read some comics wrong 20 years ago.
WTF
Why is DC determined to ressurect the silver age? I've been an avid DC fan since I was a kid back in the 80s. I absolutely loathe what DC is doing.
DC is, in effect, tossing away the legacy characters that introduced a new generation to comics in favor of their silver age versions that younger fans couldn't care less about.
Why does no one retcon everything back into their golden age incarnations? It seems that its ok to shuffle off the golden agers to perpetual second tier status in the JSA, but heaven help you if you replace silver age characters with newer versions.
Its this death grip that middle aged fans of the SA have on DC that is going to kill the company. DC is ALREADY struggling. in stead of doing NEW things, they are just dredging up the past.
I hate to say this, but I've had enough. DC has been working had to push younger folks like me away for awhile now. I suppose that the one advantage that Final Crisis has is that it can also act as a jumping OFF point. I'm officially done with DC.
Why is DC determined to ressurect the silver age? I've been an avid DC fan since I was a kid back in the 80s. I absolutely loathe what DC is doing.
DC is, in effect, tossing away the legacy characters that introduced a new generation to comics in favor of their silver age versions that younger fans couldn't care less about.
Why does no one retcon everything back into their golden age incarnations? It seems that its ok to shuffle off the golden agers to perpetual second tier status in the JSA, but heaven help you if you replace silver age characters with newer versions.
Its this death grip that middle aged fans of the SA have on DC that is going to kill the company. DC is ALREADY struggling. in stead of doing NEW things, they are just dredging up the past.
I hate to say this, but I've had enough. DC has been working had to push younger folks like me away for awhile now. I suppose that the one advantage that Final Crisis has is that it can also act as a jumping OFF point. I'm officially done with DC.
Well, I'm looking forward to it immensely. I've loved everything Johns has done with Superman so far, and Gary Frank is an excellent partner-in-crime for him... Frank's Superman evokes both Chris Reeve and Curt Swan's Superman for me (and that, to my 70's/80's-reared inner child, is precisely what Superman should look like).
One thing I'm very optimistic about is that Johns' Superman track record has been that he's more inclusive than exclusive of past continuity. He tends to say, 'yeah, that all happened' and then gives an explanation as to why and how that fits in with a new-old spin on things. Look at what he's done with Toyman and Brainiac--he's managed to include all the post-Crisis stories with them, and yet bring them back to something more like their Silver Age iconic versions. Look at the artwork in the New Krypton story arc... we have Kryptonians running around wearing all manner of 'historic' Kryptonian fashion, from Joe Shuster to Curt Swan to John Byrne to Leinil Francis Yu.
That said, I suspect that he's not going to cornhole Byrne as badly as one might think. I mean, yeah, by definition, he's doing an origin that's not Byrne's or indeed Mark Waid's--and believe me, I loved Birthright--but I'll bet a nickel Johns will include some elements, at least slight nods, to both.
And I could not, NOT, be happier to see Clark, in costume, called Superboy and hanging out with the Legion (I mean, we know that's the case already in the current continuity, but still--it's a great thing). I will say that my preference would be to have him only be 'public' as Superboy in the Legion's era... maybe he could fly about and do hero stuff on the sly, even wearing the costume, in our time... but I'd rather he not be well-known by the general public 'til he becomes Superman.
I strongly suspect I'll dig this one a lot.
--g
One thing I'm very optimistic about is that Johns' Superman track record has been that he's more inclusive than exclusive of past continuity. He tends to say, 'yeah, that all happened' and then gives an explanation as to why and how that fits in with a new-old spin on things. Look at what he's done with Toyman and Brainiac--he's managed to include all the post-Crisis stories with them, and yet bring them back to something more like their Silver Age iconic versions. Look at the artwork in the New Krypton story arc... we have Kryptonians running around wearing all manner of 'historic' Kryptonian fashion, from Joe Shuster to Curt Swan to John Byrne to Leinil Francis Yu.
That said, I suspect that he's not going to cornhole Byrne as badly as one might think. I mean, yeah, by definition, he's doing an origin that's not Byrne's or indeed Mark Waid's--and believe me, I loved Birthright--but I'll bet a nickel Johns will include some elements, at least slight nods, to both.
And I could not, NOT, be happier to see Clark, in costume, called Superboy and hanging out with the Legion (I mean, we know that's the case already in the current continuity, but still--it's a great thing). I will say that my preference would be to have him only be 'public' as Superboy in the Legion's era... maybe he could fly about and do hero stuff on the sly, even wearing the costume, in our time... but I'd rather he not be well-known by the general public 'til he becomes Superman.
I strongly suspect I'll dig this one a lot.
--g
Wonder Woman's continuity had the cleanest break of any characters post-Crisis. She got a clean slate and a vastly superior product; even with Infinite Crisis it's still reasonably straightforward.
Now, certainly, the Silver Age nostalgia crap injected around IC did grievous damage to the character, but not continuity.
When i borrowed the Wonder Woman encyclopedia from the Library i almost shit myself laughing reading that the second world war Wonder Woman was a time traveling Hypolita who eventually was chased down by Diana disguised as Miss America (Linda Carter was Miss America! That's funny!) and... God bless John Byrnes little cotton socks.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
As a comic dabbler( I have a lot of Conan comics, I bought All-Star Superman #1, and Birthright that's about it) can someone tell me , or lead me somewhere, that tells me what all these alternate DC universes are? I don't really understand what this re-booting is.
I know about the Man of Steel one back in 1986, as in that they started over, but I don't get what's changing each time.
I know about the Man of Steel one back in 1986, as in that they started over, but I don't get what's changing each time.
There are only two comics in the All Star line. Batman and Superman. They are not connected to each other or anything else. I lie. All Star Batman is a Prequel to Dark Knight Returns. But that's it. It's a blank slate area for writers to be allowed to do what ever the hell they want without concerns for any other continuity issues. In theory. But it's been 4 years and there's been no creative changeover.
The reboot that we are referring to in the regular DCU for Superman is organic. Nothing is being stopped and put on blocks in the shop for 6 weeks. We just have to begin pretending that this is how it has always been as changes are made before our eyes by the worst slight of hand artists imaginable.
The only real complete sticking the universe on blocks reboots were Original Crisis (in 1985) and Zero Hour (In 1995ish) however the recent Infinite Crisis did see the reintroduction of 52 alternate earths existing beside each other interdimensionally, which reconstructs one of the grander impetuses from original crisis who had a mandate to clean up 50 years of clutter by integrating the multiuniverse.
Sorry.
HYPERTIME!!!!!!!!
The reboot that we are referring to in the regular DCU for Superman is organic. Nothing is being stopped and put on blocks in the shop for 6 weeks. We just have to begin pretending that this is how it has always been as changes are made before our eyes by the worst slight of hand artists imaginable.
The only real complete sticking the universe on blocks reboots were Original Crisis (in 1985) and Zero Hour (In 1995ish) however the recent Infinite Crisis did see the reintroduction of 52 alternate earths existing beside each other interdimensionally, which reconstructs one of the grander impetuses from original crisis who had a mandate to clean up 50 years of clutter by integrating the multiuniverse.
Sorry.
HYPERTIME!!!!!!!!
With Wonder Woman it's more about the collateral damage: JLA, Teen Titans, Wonder Girl and to a lesser extent JSA and Infinity Inc.
Don't forget Sandman.
I got such a chubby reading Sandman when I figured out that Daniel was the grandson of Wonder Woman, Steve Trevor, Hawkman and Hawkgirl... Until y'know some post crisis schism changed who Fury's parents were.
I got such a chubby reading Sandman when I figured out that Daniel was the grandson of Wonder Woman, Steve Trevor, Hawkman and Hawkgirl... Until y'know some post crisis schism changed who Fury's parents were.
Hawkman. His continuity is worse than Wonder Woman's. I'm not even sure if Katar Hol exists anymore.
Agreed.
Except they're not mutally exclusive. There's no reason that the Matrix Supergirl can't exist in the same continuity as Kara Zor-El, except that Dan Didio doesn't want the Matrix Supergirl to exist.
At least Power Girl's origin has been straightened out. Even if that means there are two Karas with Kryptonian origins running around the DC Universe these days.
Infinity Inc's problem was that Earth-2 vanished, rather than anything to do with Perez's reboot.
As to the rest; Black Canary subbed in fine as a found member (in both the JSA and JLA).
The only real issue is Wonder Girl, though Wonder Girl has been an issue from the start, since she was created via continuity error. She never had much to do with the Wondy mythos until the 90s (having, maybe, one or two appearances total in WW itself pre-Crisis), and the first new explanation was workable; as with a lot of these things, the real problem came when future writers kept picking at scabs and changing things to be more in line with old continuity (see also: Hippolyta in the JSA, a development I've always been profoundly ambivalent about, because it creates an irresolvable timeline problem with Perez's work, but it was the best stuff ever done with the character of Hippolyta).
Perez's reboot could have been use to strengthen the JSA and II.
No BC doesn't work as a WW subsitute in JLA. ( I don't recall her taking that role in JSA). Saying Yeah thast BC in issue #XXX doen't address the actual content of Issue #XXX and the role WW played in it. Which often revolved around her Amazon powers and equipment. Plus Wonder Woman is part of the big 3. Making her Miss Janey Come Lately seems to lessen her importance.
Wonder Girl is the problem. None of the "Who is...." stuff has worked well post Crisis. It's hard to totally recreate the character and make all the fans accept it. Especially if that character still sports a WW style costume and has WW style powers in flashbacks/continuity that takes place before WW appeared.
Wonder Girl was a problem the moment she appeared in the pre-crisis Teen Titans back in the 60s. She was continunity error right at the start. The TT writers just decided to ignore the fact that the character should not exist.
That being said, I've never understood why she continues to be a problem. The only reason character origins stop making sense is that writers go back and change them without anyregard to the story that had been told up to that point.
In fact, most of the things that are considered "problems" only exist because some new writers INSIST on trying to recreate stories, teams and characters as they were in the past. Take the Legion of Super Heroes for instance. I do not know how many times I have read that the lack of Superboy is a problem for the Legion. No one has ever bothered to explain WHY his absense is a problem in a new timeline where the Legion's origin did not include him.
I liked the Superman: Birthright continuity. Why was that not followed up with? It had a more plausible and modern look to how Clark Kent came to be Superman.
Because from what I can tell, modern day comic book writers don't read a lot of comics. You hear similar stuff from Bouncers and other staff that work in brothels, the fantastic soon loses it's "marvel".
That and there was no ongoing series launching off from Birthright.
it was a bottleneck.
Johns is staying on Action Comics for the foreseeable future and he'd hardly ignore his own work would he? Which makes this origin an appendix to a much larger work that is quite alive.
That and there was no ongoing series launching off from Birthright.
it was a bottleneck.
Johns is staying on Action Comics for the foreseeable future and he'd hardly ignore his own work would he? Which makes this origin an appendix to a much larger work that is quite alive.
It was adressed by the TT writer ( Marv Wolfman) who gave her an origin in Teen Titans # 22 ( 1969).
They stop making sense when key elements have to be changed because of changes to related character.