Old Star Trek fans: don't you sometimes get happy just because there are new series?

[evilchumlee]

They sold me on the Academy series when they got Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti. Those are big gets for this franchise, even though I've never really wanted an Academy series and kind of see Prodigy as the "perfect" academy series anyway. It could be interesting and hopefully the trailer is good.

Yeah I have to say, in a pleasant change from much of nuTrek announcements... everytime they reveal something about SFA, I tend to respond with, "Ok, that's pretty cool."

Contrast to when they were revealing Discovery, and each time was, "Oh god WHY? This can't be real."

 

[Sim]

I remember the post-Enterprise dark times, when it seemed like there was no room for Star Trek in the 21st century (in fact, I think it seemed that way even DURING Enterprise). Now I feel like I'm living in a golden age.

Instead I see a lot of people criticizing: "Oh no, they made the wrong period to make the new series", "The choice of the actor who will play the fourth extra on the bridge was a disaster", "Ha ha! But have you seen how they made the new warp nacelles? Do they take us for idiots???"

I, on the other hand, am simply happy to know that every now and then I will see a new episode that will take me to the stars. But am I the only one? Too naive and not savvy enough to "really" understand what is needed in a new Star Trek series?

I agree with you. I'm really glad Star Trek is back to the small screen.

Took me a while to really embrace this third generation Trek. I really wanted to love DSC, and gave it many new chances, but ca. by the time PIC and LD came around, I gave up... DSC is just not "my" Trek.

But I was simply happy to see Picard on screen again, and this nostalgia was enough to get me hooked on PIC quickly. I didn't have all that high expectations. I get all the criticism, especially the writing of the arcs was lacking and a lot of potential wasted ... but I can easily forgive that, because my nostalgia is sufficiently triggered.

Then came LD and I enjoyed it from the start. SNW finally made me feel we're in a new "golden age" for Star Trek. All nitpicking aside, this show is just great fun to watch.

I guess the only thing that kind of leaves me with a tear in just one eye is that I'm missing the old 26 episodes per season format. Even when there were more mediocre episodes in such longer seasons, it allowed for more character development (that was often a good aspect even of "fillers") and contributed to the feeling the shows were "permanent". I wouldn't mind cheaper, but longer Star Trek. But that's complaining on a very high level. In the end, I'm glad we get new Star Trek, even good new Star Trek.

 

[evilchumlee]

I wouldn't mind cheaper, but longer Star Trek. But that's complaining on a very high level. In the end, I'm glad we get new Star Trek, even good new Star Trek.

I hate this trend in modern media, where everything is high budget, feature film quality. I think it takes something away from both TV and film. The two are quickly becoming the same thing, and I really don't want that.

 

[fireproof78]

But that's complaining on a very high level. In the end, I'm glad we get new Star Trek, even good new Star Trek.

This is very much my view. Do I have gripes? Sure. But, I'm happy with the current output, the variety of stories and opportunities for people to get what they want as much as possible, even if it all isn't for them.

I never had the "all Star Trek is for me" experience.

 

[Sim]

This is very much my view. Do I have gripes? Sure. But, I'm happy with the current output, the variety of stories and opportunities for people to get what they want as much as possible, even if it all isn't for them.

I never had the "all Star Trek is for me" experience.

Yeah, even in the 90s, I was disappointed in VOY and for a long time, it was the one Star Trek series I didn't really like. So it's not new for me either when one or the other Trek show isn't my cup of tea. I'm glad VOY (or even DSC for that matter) exists and expands the fandom. Not everybody has to like all the shows.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yeah, even in the 90s, I was disappointed in VOY and for a long time, it was the one Star Trek series I didn't really like. So it's not new for me either when one or the other Trek show isn't my cup of tea. I'm glad VOY (or even DSC for that matter) exists and expands the fandom. Not everybody has to like all the shows.

This was a new experience for me because I *DID* like all of Star Trek. That's why DSC hit me so hard. I'm passionate about the things I like, and Star Trek is the thing I like the most.

I don't really care about expanding the fandom. It might be a selfish viewpoint, whatever, but I just want more of the thing I like and it makes me kind of sad when there's a tease of more of the thing I like, except... it's not actually the thing I like.

I really like buffalo wings. I want more of them. If somebody is like, "Here's some buffalo wings!" but they're actually like, cauliflower wings... i'm gonna be bummed. I wanted the real buffalo wings. Not the things that are similar but not as good.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I like Stargate (even Universe), Starship Troopers and Spaceballs.
Cowboy Bebop, Space Battleship Yamato and Outlaw Star
Book of Boba Fett, Babylon 5 and BSG.
Farscape, Firefly, Futurama.
Doctor Who, Mass Effect, Red Dwarf, Outer Worlds, Guardians of the Galaxy, Dark Matter, Killjoys... even Lexx at times. And especially The Expanse.

If Star Trek is ever something I don't enjoy, chances are it's just not science fiction enough anymore. Or it goes against the philosophy or continuity of the franchise. Or it's just plain bad. So that seems like something that needs to be avoided.

 

[Sim]

This was a new experience for me because I *DID* like all of Star Trek. That's why DSC hit me so hard. I'm passionate about the things I like, and Star Trek is the thing I like the most.

I don't really care about expanding the fandom. It might be a selfish viewpoint, whatever, but I just want more of the thing I like and it makes me kind of sad when there's a tease of more of the thing I like, except... it's not actually the thing I like.

I really like buffalo wings. I want more of them. If somebody is like, "Here's some buffalo wings!" but they're actually like, cauliflower wings... i'm gonna be bummed. I wanted the real buffalo wings. Not the things that are similar but not as good.

Hm, I understand your point.

On the other side, if all new Trek shows are the same, there is not really a need for them, imo. A new show should hit the right balance, enough tradition to be recognizable as Star Trek, but also enough new elements to keep it fresh and interesting.

I guess I didn't like VOY, just because they played it safe and didn't really try new things. It felt bland because of it, too generic ... which was a disappointment for me because DS9 showed at the same time how amazing it can be to give the TNG formula more depth and expand the boundaries of the franchise. VOY felt like a step back in comparison.

However, I dislike DSC for the opposite reason. There were/are too few familiar elements in it, for my taste. They tried many new things, but they didn't work for me, most of the time.

 

[fireproof78]

Or it goes against the philosophy or continuity of the franchise. Or it's just plain bad. So that seems like something that needs to be avoided.

"Plain bad" is subjective though. There are many who consider TMP the worst Trek film ever. There are others, Roddenberry included, who felt that TWOK and TUC went against the philosophy that he felt in Trek that was important.

Continuity is always a sticking point because certain upgrades are seen as excessive, again with TMP, then TWOK and so on.

i'm gonna be bummed.

Sure but then I go to my old wing recipe and get some more. The existence of cauliflower wings doesn't take away from other wings.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't really care about expanding the fandom.

Expanding the fandom is necessary for the franchise to survive.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I don't really care about expanding the fandom.

You're on a message board created by fans communicating with fans about Star Trek.

Fandom is a big part of this equation.

 

[evilchumlee]

You're on a message board created by fans communicating with fans about Star Trek.

Fandom is a big part of this equation.

Right, but I don't care about adding more to the fandom. It's very cool if more people are into Star Trek, and from the business end of it of course they want more fans, but it's not a concern of mine.

Sure but then I go to my old wing recipe and get some more. The existence of cauliflower wings doesn't take away from other wings.

In this case, it's more that I like the buffalo wings from a specific restaurant. I would like them to use their old recipe, but they've turned to mostly making the new wings I don't like as much now.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

My thoughts on bringing in new fans is that it's obviously crucial if we're going to keep Star Trek going, and it's great for the new fans as well as they get lots of Star Trek to enjoy.

But if Paramount decided one day that the best way to bring in more Star Trek fans would be to make a new show where Spock is stuck in 2024 New York, and he teams up with a cop to solve crimes, well the new audience that pulled in probably wouldn't help the franchise overall.

Paramount could decide that the next Star Trek show is going to be live football. That gets huge viewing figures, so the Star Trek fanbase will expand dramatically! It should also have a very healthy future, as football never goes out of fashion, so they can keep making Star Trek: Football forever. We never have to see another spaceship, phaser or Cardassian again.

I don't want to sound like I'm gatekeeping, but if a new Star Trek fan doesn't like the stuff I like, their influence on the franchise's future doesn't benefit me much. And it doesn't benefit all the other potential new fans who share our interests. So new Trek series coming out isn't necessarily a positive unless these Trek series are leading to better Trek for all of us. Both existing and future fans.

 

[fireproof78]

this case, it's more that I like the buffalo wings from a specific restaurant. I would like them to use their old recipe, but they've turned to mostly making the new wings I don't like as much now.

I guess.

I feel this is a false equivalency since the wings I like from that restaurant analogy the menu is just expanded.

 

[evilchumlee]

I guess.

I feel this is a false equivalency since the wings I like from that restaurant analogy the menu is just expanded.

I can also just equate to what it is.

I like Star Trek TV shows and movies.

I want more Star Trek TV shows and movies, despite also having the older ones still available to watch.

But I also want the new Star Trek TV shows and movies to be like the older ones that I like, not some new style that I do not like as much.

I want more of the thing I like, not more of a thing similar to the thing I like but not as good.

 

[fireproof78]

I can also just equate to what it is.

I like Star Trek TV shows and movies.

I want more Star Trek TV shows and movies, despite also having the older ones still available to watch.

But I also want the new Star Trek TV shows and movies to be like the older ones that I like, not some new style that I do not like as much.

I want more of the thing I like, not more of a thing similar to the thing I like but not as good.

Ok.

I understand the attitude but I do not share it. All Star Trek has never appeared to me and I'm ok if something gets made I don't like.

 

[DonIago]

To continue the chicken wings analogy, I think the question is whether one perceives the different series as being different flavors of wings, or whether one perceives them as being entirely different parts of the chicken, or perhaps not even chicken at all, but something better or worse than chicken.

 

[fireproof78]

To continue the chicken wings analogy, I think the question is whether one perceives the different series as being different flavors of wings, or whether one perceives them as being entirely different parts of the chicken, or perhaps not even chicken at all, but something better or worse than chicken.

Well, to me, Trek has never just been one specific menu item. It has always had a variety platform and that was built in on purpose.

It had horror, it had monster of the week, as well as military adventure, and espionage. It wasn't ever one thing.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I want more of the thing I like, not more of a thing similar to the thing I like but not as good.

You just described every Star Trek, though.

More of TNG which is similar to TOS but to many fans not as good.

More of Voyager which is similar to TNG but to many fans not as good.

More of Enterprise which is...

Do you see how tough a sell this is if only creating a show catered to an individual?

 

[FederationHistorian]

Prior to Discovery, yes.

Post-Discovery... not really. Discovery was like a shot to chest. It killed a piece of my soul.

When I first heard about it, I was excited beyond belief. Some of the early details came out and... yeah, I was totally on board. Excited. I remember some EARLY test footage of the ship came out and I was like "Ok, it looks weird for the era it's supposed to be in but I can still get behind this." Some more details came and I was like "Odd choice but ok". I remember the first leaked image of a Klingon and I was like "Obviously fake, no way they would do something like that." Then... more came.

By the time the show was about to air, I was still desperately trying to kid myself into thinking it wasn't going to be what I was afraid it would be. Then I watched the first episode. I thought, "Ok... ok... it was bad, but it's the pilot, they're always bad." But... it stayed bad.

DSC actually made me overall less interested in Trek. Even the stuff I like that's coming out now (honestly, most of it?) i'm just not as excited about anymore, and I don't even bother to try to get excited about what could-be because they probably won't do it. "You want Legacy? Too bad, you get more DSC-related stuff and some kinda sitcom." I wasted all my excitement on DSC.

I'm less of a Trek fan than I was in 2016. That's ok, I guess.

I still could be excited for a new Trek show. It's still inside of me. It came out for PIC S3. The rest, even when good, just hasn't excited me.

Basically this. Though I really like LD.

And it's not like I think that DIS is uniformly bad. S4 of DIS is better than all of SNW, imo. I liked a lot of S3 too. Unfortunately, there was a lot of bad beforehand and they burned me out with the threat-of-the-season approach and the mystery box storytelling. There's unfortunately been bad since then too, particularly Very Short Treks, "Holograms All The Way Down" excepted.

And with LD ending this year, and with unending uncertainty regarding ST4, the prequel movie and Legacy, I don't see any reason to be excited about Star Trek. it actually seems like a good time to head to the exit ramp and move on to something else.