Oh, the joys of being management!

[John Picard]

He cries? Tell him to be a man for once in his life. Maybe, just maybe, you can shame him into quitting because you're mean. Seriously, if I were in your shoes, I'd make him cry every chance I got, carefully destroying what little self-esteem he (allegedly) has to the point he'd run out the door never to return.

*cough*some identifying characteristics, such as gender have been changed to protect the not so innocent*cough

My advice -- start drinking heavily.

 

[Hermiod]

Fearing for their job? How hard is it to show up on time for work?

People in the United States are subject to at-will employment. Specifically, people can be terminated for any reason their employer sees fit without notice unless contractually specified.

In this case, this individual works in a government job which makes it a lot more difficult to just fire him.

I mean, shit happens, which is why the phone thing is in place. But if you are showing up late every single day, then why bother? If there are reasons why showing up at a certain time isnt working out, then something can easily be worked out, for example the individual who starts an hour earlier.

People get scheduled to start at a certain time for a reason, not just for shits and giggles. And it's not like they are getting fired immediately, nor were they appropriately warned. Sure, to some people 8 hours does mean a lot, but they were given a fair warning, and if it meant that much to them they would call.

If they want to sit there and abuse the system they must suffer the consequences.

My comments are general ones about how some organisations have failed to adopt management practices that 1) attract the best employees, 2) provide those employees with a happy and productive working environment and 3) work for some pretty damned huge and extremely successful organisations such as Microsoft and Google. Government jobs do not pay anywhere near as well as companies in the private sector so they have to do other things to attract the best staff. These can be really simple things like offering more holiday, a relaxed dress code, a relaxed working environment, flexible working hours, better promotion prospects etc.

If a government organisation doesn't do that, why would someone worth hiring in the first place ever want to work for them ? You're just going to attract the dregs that McDonalds didn't want if you are not very, very careful.

Personally, I do not believe in timesheets for employees who earn a fixed salary and are not paid by the hour. Organisations like the ones I mention place a much greater emphasis on personal responsibility and end product than total hours worked.

At the end of the day it's this simple: a happy worker is a productive worker.

Anyways, thats my rant for the day, and I havent really read past that post

So you obviously missed the part where Crusher Disciple explained the situation further, then ? Or where I made it clear I was speaking in general and not about this specific case ?

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Personally, I do not believe in timesheets for employees who earn a fixed salary and are not paid by the hour. Organisations like the ones I mention place a much greater emphasis on personal responsibility and end product than total hours worked.

That's exactly how I feel every time I fill out one of those effin' things.

But we owe it to the tax payers to provide an accurate accounting of how we spend state time. So it's off to the Excel spreadsheet once a month.

 

[Hermiod]

^Ah, we do use a time recording system (Microsoft SharpOWL) but it's to record hours spent on a project for budgeting purposes, not hours a person spends in the office. The output from that doesn't affect my salary.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

And I just remembered that the EPA/ Enviromental Protection Agency that gives us our federal dollars requires an audit of our timesheets to see how much manpower was spent on federal projects.

So we also have audit reporting requirements to keep those things. Joy.

 

[Hermiod]

^There's a line between how many man hours were spent on a project and how many hours an individual has been spending at the office.

Specificially, I don't believe people with a regular salary should be clocking in and out every day.

 

[Plecostomus]

This clown needs to be punted. I take it he's part of the under-30 generation where everyone gets a trophy and accountability was never part of his upbringing?

Not this old shit again - I've had literally 100s of employees over twenty years and there is absolutely no age linkage to this - some older workers are lazy and some young workers are great.

The idea that the older worker is magically better is utter utter shite.

Thank you. Though I disagree with your sig in this case you are full of much wisdom.

 

[John Picard]

^There's a line between how many man hours were spent on a project and how many hours an individual has been spending at the office.

Specificially, I don't believe people with a regular salary should be clocking in and out every day.

Unfortunately, the labor laws in the US require timecards be kept whether workers are hourly or salaried. Antiquated Union demands to labor laws restrict the amount of overtime people can work. There are some people in I/T who would work 70 hours per week if given the choice, and back when Bill Clinton was President there was discussion of removing barriers to overtime requirements; however, the Unions "championed" the working man by opposing their removal

 

[Hermiod]

^And we have the European Working Time Directive so don't think we're excluded. SharpOWL keeps a record of what I've been doing with my 7.5 hours per day.

It's a tool for budgeting, though, and not a weapon to hit me over the head with.

 

[JoeZhang]

^And we have the European Working Time Directive so don't think we're excluded. SharpOWL keeps a record of what I've been doing with my 7.5 hours per day.

It's a tool for budgeting, though, and not a weapon to hit me over the head with.

Where are you? If you are in the UK, you can opt-out.

As an employer, I seriously couldn't give a shit how many hours people do or do not do - I simply care the work set is done in the time set. If someone gets a month job done in three weeks and wants to spend the next week in the office having a chuff, good luck to them. However this really happens as people just tend to take all the time you allocate them to do a job.

 

[Plecostomus]

^There's a line between how many man hours were spent on a project and how many hours an individual has been spending at the office.

Specificially, I don't believe people with a regular salary should be clocking in and out every day.

Unfortunately, the labor laws in the US require timecards be kept whether workers are hourly or salaried. Antiquated Union demands to labor laws restrict the amount of overtime people can work. There are some people in I/T who would work 70 hours per week if given the choice, and back when Bill Clinton was President there was discussion of removing barriers to overtime requirements; however, the Unions "championed" the working man by opposing their removal

While I would personally work as many hours as I could (I *love* what I do) there are some unprincipled/scruple-less employers out there who would would take advantage of the situation.

Removing the barrier, no. Reforming it, allowing exceptions.. yes.

 

[John Picard]

^There's a line between how many man hours were spent on a project and how many hours an individual has been spending at the office.

Specificially, I don't believe people with a regular salary should be clocking in and out every day.

Unfortunately, the labor laws in the US require timecards be kept whether workers are hourly or salaried. Antiquated Union demands to labor laws restrict the amount of overtime people can work. There are some people in I/T who would work 70 hours per week if given the choice, and back when Bill Clinton was President there was discussion of removing barriers to overtime requirements; however, the Unions "championed" the working man by opposing their removal

While I would personally work as many hours as I could (I *love* what I do) there are some unprincipled/scruple-less employers out there who would would take advantage of the situation.

Removing the barrier, no. Reforming it, allowing exceptions.. yes.

I agree, and that's what they wanted to do: reform. However, Labor Unions are still stuck in the 1940's thinking everyone wants to work only 40 hours per week. Hell, my dad said that the norm up until the 50's was 8.5 - 9 hour days Monday through Friday and then from 8am until 1pm Saturdays.

 

[Hermiod]

Where are you? If you are in the UK, you can opt-out.

Yeah, but I don't get overtime so there's no reason for me to do so.

As an employer, I seriously couldn't give a shit how many hours people do or do not do - I simply care the work set is done in the time set. If someone gets a month job done in three weeks and wants to spend the next week in the office having a chuff, good luck to them. However this really happens as people just tend to take all the time you allocate them to do a job.

Exactly what I'm getting at. In my business people are expected to come up with their own estimates, though.

 

[Sephiroth]

heh, the good thing about owning my own buisness, i'm going to mount my M40a3 to a plaque on my office wall that reads "the complaint department"

 

[JoeZhang]

Where are you? If you are in the UK, you can opt-out.

Yeah, but I don't get overtime so there's no reason for me to do so.

As an employer, I seriously couldn't give a shit how many hours people do or do not do - I simply care the work set is done in the time set. If someone gets a month job done in three weeks and wants to spend the next week in the office having a chuff, good luck to them. However this really happens as people just tend to take all the time you allocate them to do a job.

Exactly what I'm getting at. In my business people are expected to come up with their own estimates, though.

Sure - when I say "allocate", the allocation is what I work out with the person who's doing the legwork.

 

[JonathonWally]

This clown needs to be punted. I take it he's part of the under-30 generation where everyone gets a trophy and accountability was never part of his upbringing?

I'm under 30 and my job requires me to have, I'd say, 6 times the amount of personal responsibility and judgement of people twice my age.

You really sound like those old grumpy people, "when I was your age we walked 10 miles in 5 feet of snow, uphill both way, and we liked it"


Time for a new schtick.

 

[John Picard]

This clown needs to be punted. I take it he's part of the under-30 generation where everyone gets a trophy and accountability was never part of his upbringing?

I'm under 30 and my job requires me to have, I'd say, 6 times the amount of personal responsibility and judgement of people twice my age.

You really sound like those old grumpy people, "when I was your age we walked 10 miles in 5 feet of snow, uphill both way, and we liked it"


Time for a new schtick.

Statistically, younger workers are problematic for having a good work ethic. Have a Day.

 

[JonathonWally]

This clown needs to be punted. I take it he's part of the under-30 generation where everyone gets a trophy and accountability was never part of his upbringing?

I'm under 30 and my job requires me to have, I'd say, 6 times the amount of personal responsibility and judgement of people twice my age.

You really sound like those old grumpy people, "when I was your age we walked 10 miles in 5 feet of snow, uphill both way, and we liked it"


Time for a new schtick.

Statistically, younger workers are problematic for having a good work ethic. Have a Day.

Statistically, older people are more likely to suffer from Alzheimer's

 

[JoeZhang]

This clown needs to be punted. I take it he's part of the under-30 generation where everyone gets a trophy and accountability was never part of his upbringing?

I'm under 30 and my job requires me to have, I'd say, 6 times the amount of personal responsibility and judgement of people twice my age.

You really sound like those old grumpy people, "when I was your age we walked 10 miles in 5 feet of snow, uphill both way, and we liked it"


Time for a new schtick.

Statistically, younger workers are problematic for having a good work ethic. Have a Day.

I'll be interested to see the studies you are citing - what are they? Who produced them?

 

[Plecostomus]

Statistically, younger workers are problematic for having a good work ethic. Have a Day.

I'll be interested to see the studies you are citing - what are they? Who produced them?

Most of these reports are generated by people with an agenda: Mostly those who fear change, refuse to change and realize they can't compete any other way so they make trouble for the incoming new workers.

"That new kid doesn't understand ANYTHING. When I was his age I knew everything already, and no one trained me or gave me guidance dag nabit!"

I'm sorry but society is changing, driven by technology. Either can the fear and get on board or get out of the way.

75% of my problems workwise stem from people in fear of being replaced. The other 25% stem from me being me. ...and 33.341% of these numbers are made up on the spot.