Spoilers Oh Oh..

[Noname Given]

I will say I really hope the Vulcan Commodore DOESN'T end up being the HEAD of Star Fleet security because while I could buy that ALL the various Star Empires manage to get spies into each others military organizations, Star Fleet (and Section 31) would have to be pretty damn incompotent to not realize their own HEAD of Starfleet Security is a Romulan agent or collaborator.

 

[fireproof78]

I will say I really hope the Vulcan Commodore DOESN'T end up being the HEAD of Star Fleet security because while I could buy that ALL the various Star Empires manage to get spies into each others military organizations, Star Fleet (and Section 31) would have to be pretty damn incompotent to not realize their own HEAD of Starfleet Security is a Romulan agent or collaborator.

Well, the Tal Shiar were successfully infiltrated.

Two, Starfleet Security sucks.

 

[Gonzo]

Could be either, I want to know if the event happened before, after or during (part of the cause) the Schism and splitting into Romulan and Vulcan.

If its before then there will probably be Vulcan members of Zhat Vash if not and the Commodore is Vulcan then a Romulan was willing to tell them about it which is supposed to be taboo.

I do think that she is playing the role of a Vulcan but whether or not she is really a Romulan remains to be seen.

The dialogue between her and Rizzo could be taken either way, the Commodore definitely knows that Rizzo is actually a Romulan but doesnt really give anything away about herself, same goes for her status as a member of Zhat Vash.

 

[ITDUDE]

Two, Starfleet Security sucks.

In IT, security is one of the highest paid position you can have, because it's a thankless job. Best case scenario, you do your job. Worst case scenario, if your company gets hacked, security is the first team to get the blame.
Starfleet Security doesn't get paid... so there you go...

 

[SJGardner]

Why can't Oh and Rizzo both be Romulans with one of them posing as a Vulcan and the other as a Human? A little variety in your assigned cover identities shouldn't hurt. But yeah, my first thought after Oh opening her mouth was 'three hundred quatloos on her being a Romulan', so I'm standing my ground until it gets conclusively proven otherwise.

 

[Gonzo]

Why can't Oh and Rizzo both be Romulans with one of them posing as a Vulcan and the other as a Human? A little variety in your assigned cover identities shouldn't hurt. But yeah, my first thought after Oh opening her mouth was 'three hundred quatloos on her being a Romulan', so I'm standing my ground until it gets conclusively proven otherwise.

They may not want us to know yet, especially if O is a Vulcan as that could indicate that the AI event happened before or even during the schism that split the race.

 

[Noname Given]

They may not want us to know yet, especially if O is a Vulcan as that could indicate that the AI event happened before or even during the schism that split the race.

^^^
That would definitely be an interesting/novel take on the whole thing to be sure...doubt the writers have the guts to go THAT far though. (Hey, if I'm wrong so much the better. )

 

[Gonzo]

^^^
That would definitely be an interesting/novel take on the whole thing to be sure...doubt the writers have the guts to go THAT far though. (Hey, if I'm wrong so much the better. )

It would certainly explain why they dont want anyone to know.

The schism that formed the Romulans may not be as simple as some think, at this point I dont think its a matter of either all the Vulcans or all the Romulans being androids but it could end up being something to do with it.

Perhaps the AI incident is what set the Vulcans on their path of logic after all, what if that path was started by an Android the Vulcans created rather than by a Vulcan, I could certainly understand why those Romulans who know would not want it to happen again or for that information to get out.

 

[SoM]

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. A vast majority of Romulans we've seen are cold and methodical. Rizzo herself is calm and dispassionate in both scenes and could easily pose as a Vulcan. Also, there have been Romulans-posing-as-Vulcan spies in Trek before!

Romulans are nothing if not professional. They could certainly "act the part" if need be. We've never seen a Romulan lose control of their emotions, like, ever.

Well, Laris certainly seemed to in this episode...

 

[Psion]

It would certainly explain why they dont want anyone to know.
...
Perhaps the AI incident is what set the Vulcans on their path of logic after all, what if that path was started by an Android the Vulcans created rather than by a Vulcan, I could certainly understand why those Romulans who know would not want it to happen again or for that information to get out.

This. I've been thinking along very similar lines. They deliberately state that the Zhat Vash is a hatred that goes back thousands of years. That would put it at the same time as the Vulcan/Romulan schism and the rise of Surak. Maybe those early Vulcans learned a valuable lesson about synthetics and AIs that they prefer not to share with off-worlders.

 

[Timo]

The exact phrasing is "thousands upon thousands". Is that valid English for mere 2,000 years?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gonzo]

This. I've been thinking along very similar lines. They deliberately state that the Zhat Vash is a hatred that goes back thousands of years. That would put it at the same time as the Vulcan/Romulan schism and the rise of Surak. Maybe those early Vulcans learned a valuable lesson about synthetics and AIs that they prefer not to share with off-worlders.

It could even be before the schism which would explain why a potential Vulcan would know about it, otherwise it would break the rule of telling no one.

Normally Vulcans like to talk about their lessons, the Romulans most certainly don't but it could be really embarrassing in which case neither of them would talk about it.

 

[Psion]

The exact phrasing is "thousands upon thousands". Is that valid English for mere 2,000 years?

Timo Saloniemi

Indeed! Going back any further than 2000 years makes it a Vulcan problem that predates the Romulan/Vulcan schism. Of course, most don't think of Vulcan as being an interstellar-capable world back then. Perhaps Vulcanians maintained a small stellar empire and the schism fractured that empire.

EDIT TO ADD: It looks like Gonzo and I are on the same page about this.

 

[Gonzo]

Indeed! Going back any further than 2000 years makes it a Vulcan problem that predates the Romulan/Vulcan schism. Of course, most don't think of Vulcan as being an interstellar-capable world back then. Perhaps Vulcanians maintained a small stellar empire and the schism fractured that empire.

EDIT TO ADD: It looks like Gonzo and I are on the same page about this.

Its never really been explained by the Vulcans or Romulans which is no surprise.

It was touched on in Enterprise but that is it really.

In the end it could have nothing to do with it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh is a human surname. Maybe one of the Commodore's parents was human.

So is the name "Spock".

 

[serabine]

A Vulcan who has reservations about AI. I can easily see long time Starfleet officers who would have issues with AI after continued incidents with the Borg and the Synth attack.

Or if that secret Romulan organization that hates AI is really millennia old it predates the split from the Vulcans, which means that there might have been a branch of it that remained on Vulcan, of which Oh is an agent who is now working with her Romulan counterparts.

 

[BillJ]

Or if that secret Romulan organization that hates AI is really millennia old it predates the split from the Vulcans, which means that there might have been a branch of it that remained on Vulcan, of which Oh is an agent who is now working with her Romulan counterparts.

The extra secretive agency on top of all the rest really has the possibility of turning the show into a joke if it isn't pulled off extremely well.

 

[Noname Given]

The extra secretive agency on top of all the rest really has the possibility of turning the show into a joke if it isn't pulled off extremely well.

^^^
Yeah, that trope plus the Trek 'Evil Admiral...er Commodore' (yes, in STD it was an evil holographic representation of an Admiral Control had murdered...but still...) trope seems to be one thing BOTH STP and STD have in common and are dipping into heavily for 'drama'.

 

[Indysolo]

Well, the Tal Shiar were successfully infiltrated.

Two, Starfleet Security sucks.

So does Starfleet medical who can't examine infiltrators and determine their species. Maybe Romulans and Vulcans are similar but Rizzo?

 

[BillJ]

So does Starfleet medical who can't examine infiltrators and determine their species.

It is clear that Federation/Starfleet Medical simply doesn't give a shit. Going all the way back to Arne Darvin.

Though the big one is still Voq/Ash Tyler from Discovery.