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Official Trailer Review & Comments Thread!! [Spoilers, of course]

I think you are looking at the wrong franchise - the emphasis has always been on fiction more than science.
As I mentioned further up thread, Roddenberry originally went out of his way to make the science in Star Trek as plausible as possible.

However, I will admit that over the years (especially in VOY and ENT) that emphasis has been ignored more and more.
 
This silliness of the Enterprise being built on Earth is the kind of mistake you'd expect from a movie or TV show back in the 1950s... a bad one.

I'm going to venture a huge guess that if Gene had said the opposite, that his ship WAS built on the ground, you would hail it as a Science marvel and would build a giant statue to Gene in your back yard ;)

But Gene already contradicted himself. His Enterprise entered the atmosphere in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday," so........

And second, there's this little thing called gravity which makes lifting large items from the surface of the Earth energy and cost prohibitive.

This is where the purists contradict themselves. There supposed was *no* money in the future. So what would it cost?

One of the brilliant things about Star Trek has always been how it did a fairly good job (in most cases) of getting the science right. Seems for all the millions being spent on this film, they weren't able to spend any money on a science advisor.

Wrong.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/02/11/interview-with-star-treks-new-science-advisor/

Sure, the shot of Kirk riding up to the ship under construction on Earth has a certain emotional appeal. But if having the ship being towed into space by a bunch of birds tied to the hull had an emotional appeal that wouldn't change how incredibly stupid it was.

Well if they do that in the movie (which they won't) then it would be stupid to do that, but there's still no "stupidity" to having it built on the surface.
 
But I suppose we're just going to have to accept the notion that this thing is lifted to orbit complete with either big frakking boosters or amazing anti-gravity generators. A cool shot, but I'd rather they didn't. (Obviously -- although I do acknowledge that having Kirk look on while the big E is under construction is a moving image.)

In a film where people are travelling in time, I can't say it causes me a great deal of concern... ;)
Perhaps, but I see little reason to dispose of the infant with the bathwater. Should we make Spock able to fly and Kirk bullet-proof as well? Reflect on why you'd object to that, and perhaps you'd empathize a bit more with my position.

Well ... again, the ISS was assembled in space.
Aren't all of it's parts built on Earth though? ;)
Indeed they are. As were the original components of the Enterprise as well, according to Roddenberry.
But you seem to doubt what we can do in the (fictional) future. A time where we HAVE seen the Enterprise dip below and go back up Earth's atmosphere, a time where we somehow go hundreds of times the speed of light, where time travel is possible, all aliens are humanoid, the ships don't have a bathroom, and sound can somehow be heard in space.... we can't figure out how to build a ship and send it into orbit.
Actually, some episodes have depicted compact anti-grav devices and I don't have much doubt of 23rd century science and industry. My complaint is based entirely on what I perceive as an underestimation of that same era. Are you arguing that we can't have spread industry out across the solar system by the time the Starship Enterprise is constructed? That such fabrication must remain as planet-bound as that which built the Saturn V and Skylab? Trust me, Devon, I'm not the one doubting here.

Excellent points, and very well said.

Thank you, sir. It's easy to get disenchanted when the spitball crowd seems deliberately obtuse and not above taking arguments counter to their own opinion out of context.
 
I think you are looking at the wrong franchise - the emphasis has always been on fiction more than science.
As I mentioned further up thread, Roddenberry originally went out of his way to make the science in Star Trek as plausible as possible.

As long as it didn't get in the way of something cool. There is no real pressing reason to make Trek into a science show. That doesn't help it in any way.

This movie is not going to be ruined by the ship being built on the ground. In fact, it will make the movie better, it seems.
 
But I suppose we're just going to have to accept the notion that this thing is lifted to orbit complete with either big frakking boosters or amazing anti-gravity generators. A cool shot, but I'd rather they didn't. (Obviously -- although I do acknowledge that having Kirk look on while the big E is under construction is a moving image.)

In a film where people are travelling in time, I can't say it causes me a great deal of concern... ;)
Perhaps, but I see little reason to dispose of the infant with the bathwater. Should we make Spock able to fly and Kirk bullet-proof as well? Reflect on why you'd object to that, and perhaps you'd empathize a bit more with my position.

There is nothing 'magical' about building something on Earth. So that's a really really piss poor comparison.

Indeed they are. As were the original components of the Enterprise as well, according to Roddenberry.

So:

-Building the parts on the ground then launching them into space = A-Ok

-Building the parts on the ground all together and then launching them into space = terrible for some reason, total fantasy loony land.

As Kirk once said: I fail to see the significant difference.

But you seem to doubt what we can do in the (fictional) future. A time where we HAVE seen the Enterprise dip below and go back up Earth's atmosphere, a time where we somehow go hundreds of times the speed of light, where time travel is possible, all aliens are humanoid, the ships don't have a bathroom, and sound can somehow be heard in space.... we can't figure out how to build a ship and send it into orbit.
Actually, some episodes have depicted compact anti-grav devices and I don't have much doubt of 23rd century science and industry. My complaint is based entirely on what I perceive as an underestimation of that same era. Are you arguing that we can't have spread industry out across the solar system by the time the Starship Enterprise is constructed? That such fabrication must remain as planet-bound as that which built the Saturn V and Skylab? Trust me, Devon, I'm not the one doubting here.
So they're building the flagship on the Earth HQ, so this means all ships are built there? I doubt it.
 
I can't remember which thread i read it in but would someone mind telling me what it is that is said in the voiceover during the opening part of the trailer during the Kirk parts. The bit about "you were meant for something more." Thanks!!
 
"You've always had a hard time finding your place in this world, haven't you? Never knowing your true worth. You can settle for less in ordinary life. How you feel like you were meant for something better, something special."
 
So:

-Building the parts on the ground then launching them into space = A-Ok

-Building the parts on the ground all together and then launching them into space = terrible for some reason, total fantasy loony land.
No ... underestimating. Capiche? Y'know like doing it the same way a Saturn V was launched? I could swear I mentioned something about that in my post, but I guess I'm just losing it with the passage of decades. Was the launch of the Saturn V "total fantasy loony land?" I'm arguing for something better than that. Something that depicts a sprawling, exciting future in outer space. The vision that Roddenberry and Solow and Jefferies had for the original Trek. In fact, I want to go one better than that, since we're at least partially rebooting things. Instead of components manufactured on the ground and lifted to orbit, I want to see those components manufactured on the Moon, in L5, in close Solar orbit, AND down on Earth and brought together in Earth orbit. Where locations in outer space are treated like New York, Norfolk, Aberdeen, and Holland are today. Where humanity left the cradle before it even learned to dance among the stars; human culture and industry first spread throughout the Solar System.

So they're building the flagship on the Earth HQ, so this means all ships are built there? I doubt it.
Flagship? What makes you think the Enterprise is the Federation's flagship? That doesn't happen until after Kirk's five year mission, as I recall. If anything, I'd think the Constellation, commanded by a commodore, has a better shot at being the flagship of that era. Or maybe the Constitution. Regardless, Orci made an announcement that it was necessary to align or tune the warp engines in a planet's gravity well, thus they think of this as standard procedure. So yes, this does probably mean all ships are built there.
 
So:

-Building the parts on the ground then launching them into space = A-Ok

-Building the parts on the ground all together and then launching them into space = terrible for some reason, total fantasy loony land.
No ... underestimating. Capiche?
No capiche. You compared it to making Kirk bullet-proof - i.e. turning it into a looney tune.

Y'know like doing it the same way a Saturn V was launched? I could swear I mentioned something about that in my post, but I guess I'm just losing it with the passage of decades. Was the launch of the Saturn V "total fantasy loony land?"

I don't recall calling it such. I also don't see the Saturn V launch and the Enterprise launch as being at all similar.

I'm arguing for something better than that. Something that depicts a sprawling, exciting future in outer space. The vision that Roddenberry and Solow and Jefferies had for the original Trek. In fact, I want to go one better than that, since we're at least partially rebooting things. Instead of components manufactured on the ground and lifted to orbit, I want to see those components manufactured on the Moon, in L5, in close Solar orbit, AND down on Earth and brought together in Earth orbit.
Meh, sounds needlessly complicated.

Where locations in outer space are treated like New York, Norfolk, Aberdeen, and Holland are today. Where humanity left the cradle before it even learned to dance among the stars; human culture and industry first spread throughout the Solar System.
Doesn't sound better, just alternate.

So they're building the flagship on the Earth HQ, so this means all ships are built there? I doubt it.
Flagship? What makes you think the Enterprise is the Federation's flagship? That doesn't happen until after Kirk's five year mission, as I recall. If anything, I'd think the Constellation, commanded by a commodore, has a better shot at being the flagship of that era. Or maybe the Constitution. Regardless, Orci made an announcement that it was necessary to align or tune the warp engines in a planet's gravity well, thus they think of this as standard procedure. So yes, this does probably mean all ships are built there.
I don't think Earth is the only thing with a gravity well. And not all ships have warp engines. It doesn't matter if it's the flagship, it is clearly one of the best of the best. It probably is the flagship, imo, but whatever.
 
This silliness of the Enterprise being built on Earth is the kind of mistake you'd expect from a movie or TV show back in the 1950s... a bad one.

I'm going to venture a huge guess that if Gene had said the opposite, that his ship WAS built on the ground, you would hail it as a Science marvel and would build a giant statue to Gene in your back yard ;)
No, I'd be saying how the Great Bird really blew that one.

No worship for Roddenberry from me, but when he did something right, I'm willing to admit it.


One of the brilliant things about Star Trek has always been how it did a fairly good job (in most cases) of getting the science right. Seems for all the millions being spent on this film, they weren't able to spend any money on a science advisor.

Wrong.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/02/11/interview-with-star-treks-new-science-advisor/
Read the article. She was hired for "post-production."
Porco will not be at work on the Trek project for a while (likely when the go into post-production).
She wasn't there to help them with problems during the writing stage.

And it appears her primary area of work for the film is for how the look of space is presented.
...to join the Star Trek production crew as a consultant on planetary science and imagery.
 
With respect to the role of the aforementioned planetary imagery advisor: I've dealt with her professionally on several occasions concerning publication of her team's Cassini mission reports. She is an astrophysicist through and through, to the point of sometimes exhibiting prima donna-like attributes where her work is concerned. I very much doubt she'd have been invited to comment on scripting, nor (I think) would she want to if she had been.
 
The Vette, could it be his drunken uncle's car? Ya know, he's rebelling against the abusive father figure by taking his prized possesion without permission. Maybe it was locked away in a barn in Iowa.

Forgive me if someone posted something similar. This is the first time I've come to this thread and I'm not going to sift through 17 pages.
 
So:

-Building the parts on the ground then launching them into space = A-Ok

-Building the parts on the ground all together and then launching them into space = terrible for some reason, total fantasy loony land.
No ... underestimating. Capiche?
No capiche. You compared it to making Kirk bullet-proof - i.e. turning it into a looney tune.

Uh ... no I didn't. Perhaps you were distracted while reading my first post. I was referring to JoeZhang's casual dismissal of technical concerns, implying that just because time travel is a story element, scientific accuracy is of little concern. If he's willing to accept one fantasy element (time travel), can we keep piling on more? After all, wouldn't a bullet-proof Kirk be cool? To put it in other terms, should we argue with a cop who is ignoring speeders that he shouldn't pull anyone over for running a red light?
 
I apologize if this has come up in the previous 16 pages, but what's so odd about the ability to lift a completely assembled starship up to orbit? Just slap enough anti-gravs on her, prevent any roll/pitch/yaw motions, and make sure nothing's in the column of airspace during the lift. Should make for an entertaining few minutes of the new movie.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong

- Assuming an impule engine can accelerate the Enterprise to c/2, whre c is the speed of light.

- Assuming the Enterprise has 600,000 metric tonnes, which is 6.0 x 10^11 g, the energy required to get it into a 36,000 Km orbit is:

delta Eg = Eg (orbit) - Eg (ground), where Eg = Gravitational Potential Energy

Given:
Radius of Earth = 6,378 km ~= 6.4 x 10^6 m
Orbit = 3.6 x 10^7 m

= mgh (orbit ) - mgh (ground) = mg(hg - ho)

= 6x10^11g * 9.81 m/s/s * ( 3.6 x 10^7 m - 6.4 x 10^6 m)
Eg= 1.74 x 10^20 J

Withoug going into relativity, and using simple kinematics (v =c/2, rlativistic effects can be ignored), to get the Enterprise from rest velocity to c/2 we need the following energy:

Ek = 0.5*m*v^2 = 0.5*m*(c/2)^2 = 0.125*m*c^2 = 6.75 x 10^27
Ek = 6.75 x 10^27 J

Now, as you can see the energy required to get to half the speed of light is 10 million times grater than to get into standard geosyncronous orbit. Think about that.
 
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