Ocampa

[KaraBear]

I still think that the limited lifespan and number of children was a result of the Caretaker. I don't think it was something he did intentionally to them. But more of a result of him providing everything for them. They didn't have to use their powers or really do anything so many of their abilities atrophied(sp?) over time

and I liked the comment someone made before about the elogium. That would make sense. If she chooses to have a child durring her first time she will have multiple elogiums and can have as many kids as she wants. But if she doesn't have a child her first time she won't get the elogium again

 

[Timo]

To nitpick the semantics, "elogium" appeared to be a one-time-only occasion: later child-bearing would supposedly go by another name. Or indeed child-bearing would not be part of "elogium" at all, but merely something that elogium makes possible.

Kes: "...The elogium, the time of change, when - when my body prepares for fertilisation. [..] But you - you don't understand. The elogium occurs only once. If I am ever going to have a child, it has to be now!"

Timo Saloniemi

 

[KaraBear]

I gues we could say that the elogium is that orange crap that apeared on her hands. It's what prepares them to have a kid. Then they just have a monthly cycle or something

 

[Guy Gardener]

That orange crap is called "superglue".

Can you imagine a rapish-Vorik-like problem that there's love sick idiot women all over that city GLUING themselves to the wrong men that have absolutely no interest in frakking them.

 

[Melakon]

The elogium sort of sounds like the Ocampa version of puberty.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Do they age in immediate bursts or quickly yet gradually (Yes, I've seen before and After, but what's your interpretation?) Kes went from baby to Kazon sex slave in a single year. If the Kazon can't see the value in that, they're morons. If it took 20 years for a chick to turn into a chicken (literally talking about chickens) then Kentucky fried chicken would cost more per ounce than gold.

 

[propita]

Would've been interesting if it had been said the "one child" rule was recent, and imposed by the Caretaker. That he was letting them (forcing them?) to die out, since he was dying. Inherently stupid, as he'd've done better transplanting them to another planet so they could live, since he owed them a debt-which-could-not-be-repaid. He grabbed ships from the AQ, so why not?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ocampa was their birth right.

I mean what if some god like aliens grabbed a bunch of Indians, or cowboys or antique truck enthusiasts and forced them to grow up on another planet?

Seriously? Do you think the cowboy planet from Enterprise and the Indian planet from TOS would have gotten along?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Ocampa are the most silly race ever. Just how do they even reproduce? They give birth standing up through their back and someone has to catch the baby...but what if someone isn't there?

Then they lie on their stomachs or sides.

 

[Melakon]

Do you think the cowboy planet from Enterprise and the Indian planet from TOS would have gotten along?

Former deputy Bennings would be the first one to start selling them firewater and guns.

 

[Tiberius]

With polygamy, the odds are not as bad as that, but eventually the species will still disappear.

However, the dialogue in "Elogium" never establishes flat out that the Ocampa would only be fertile once in their lives. The closest it comes to that is the phrase quoted above, and as said, it can be interpreted as meaning that the Ocampa females can only start producing children at this specific time; nothing goes against them continuing it thereafter.

Yes, but that's a very stretched interpretation. Kes says, "The elogium occurs only once. If I am ever going to have a child, it has to be now." A human girl wouldn't say, "I've started puberty. If I'm ever going to have a child, it has to be now," despite the fact that going through puberty occurs only once. From what Kes says, it seems that she can only become pregnant while she is going through the elogium, which only happens once. And given the way she says, "it has to be now," it seems that this is a temporary situation, not comparable to the several decades that Human women are fertile.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Here's what I think happened.

Susperia's Ocampa could eat matter with their mind, which combusted as a by product, which got them high.

Look at Ocampa.

Ocampa is a desert because something removed the nucleogenic particals which are needed for precipitation (look it up in a fake science manual sometime.).

Caretaker took "credit" for that.

If a thousand years ago Ocampan Junkies were burning down their planet chasing the dragon after the Nacene dickered with their biology... That explained a lot.

Why Kes had no idea that she could get high from just doing something as simple as eating matter with her mind and why the Nacene did not move the Ocampa to another planet when if any single Ocampa could have ever again figured out how to trigger their matter eating, they'd kill that world too.

So yes if they were tinkering with the Ocampa to make some changes why not more as to deal with their conception practices?

 

[T'Girl]

Ocampa are the most silly race ever. Just how do they even reproduce? They give birth standing up through their back and someone has to catch the baby...but what if someone isn't there?

Giraffe give birth standing, with the baby falling about six feet.

Some thoughts, given how quickly the Ocampa mature to adulthood, their pregnancies could be very brief, maybe only two or three months between conception and birth.

The child could be up and tottering the first day.

Actually carrying the baby on her back during pregnancy would definately be easier than how Humans do it, more freedom of movement.. Kind of like a backpack. How the fertized egg gets there is just a matter of plumbing.

Where do Ocampa girl's have their vaginas anyway?

Both Kes and her daughter were shown to have single children so they don't have litters or anything.

Just as twins (and triplets) run in some Human families, Kes' family might run toward single births. Doesn't mean it's the norm for her people.

The other problem with them is their senior medical and scientific specialists could have at most only 9 years of experience in their chosen field.

The Ocampa could experience time duration and life events differently than we do. Intellectually, a single year for a Human would be like several years for a Ocampa.

While she did have living quarters assigned to her, was it ever directly stated that Kes needed to sleep?

 

[Guy Gardener]

A human being laughing at an Ocampan's life expectancy is no different than a Vulcan laughing ( ) at a human's life expectancy.

Vulcans must have such pity thinking about the brief spasm that is the human condition and must make some sort of dog-year-fatasticly-ignorant-and-telepathically-void-(souless)-ike equation to justify humanity not throwing the towel in.

 

[Melakon]

Where do Ocampa girl's have their vaginas anyway?

Assuming the sperm and the baby use the same access port as with humans, it must be somewhere along the back. Which then raises the question of how much the spine interferes with the necessary procedures.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I assumed the "sack" that was mentioned where the baby grows was (mostly) external to her body like a boil or a testicle.

Does multiple babies, twins, triplets mean multiple sacks?

 

[Melakon]

Maybe they hang like cherries on a tree.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"

 

[R. Star]

Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"

You, sir, win yet another thread.