Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

[Zachary Smith]

^^

Dude, if 10% (minimum) unemployment, record deficits, two minor but LENGTHY wars and an overall world economy in peril seem insufficient to compel you that we have more PRESSING concerns than grabbing a handful of rocks that haven't changed in billions of years and WON'T change much in billions more if left alone, maybe you DO need a World War to get your attention. There ARE better times for such adventures--times of prosperity when there is low unemployment and the economy is booming. We've hd them before and we'll have them again.

You're just frustrated because what you desire is a "want-it" not "need-it" item and these are pretty much "need-it" and not "want-it" times. Don't do me a disservice. I WATCHED the moon landings on live TV. I'd LOVE to see people on Mars before I'm gone and I suspect that I've probably got at least 20 years LESS time to look forward to that than most folks posting around here. Mine is NOT an indictment of manned space flight nor a condemnation of money spent on space exploration in general. All I'm saying is that this is not the RIGHT time because there are more urgent matters at home and your desire here is a significant expense with a self-limiting and NON-URGENT return. It'll KEEP.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

....ummm, where do the schools in the US get their funding then?

School funding does not come from the federal budget. It is provided by the budgets of the individual states.

Ah righto.

Actually, some of it is state, and some of it is federal.

If the Department of Education is so successful, why do test scores in the US continue to rank so low out of industrialized nations.

After watching "The Wire", I can't help but cringe whenever someone brings up test scores as a metric.

The drive to boost test scores can in some cases actually be damaging to the education of the child.

Test scores are the only metric we have that is even semi-objective. Either they know the material or they don't.

It doesn't help that our schools no longer properly discipline students, nor do they stick to teaching essential knowledge.

Back on topic: we need sattelite/instrument package launch capability and the ability to watch for and respond to potential "earth impactors". Other than those programs, NASA should be shut down.

 

[sojourner]

^^

Dude, if 10% (minimum) unemployment, record deficits, two minor but LENGTHY wars and an overall world economy in peril seem insufficient to compel you that we have more PRESSING concerns than grabbing a handful of rocks that haven't changed in billions of years and WON'T change much in billions more if left alone, maybe you DO need a World War to get your attention. There ARE better times for such adventures--times of prosperity when there is low unemployment and the economy is booming. We've hd them before and we'll have them again.

You're just frustrated because what you desire is a "want-it" not "need-it" item and these are pretty much "need-it" and not "want-it" times. Don't do me a disservice. I WATCHED the moon landings on live TV. I'd LOVE to see people on Mars before I'm gone and I suspect that I've probably got at least 20 years LESS time to look forward to that than most folks posting around here. Mine is NOT an indictment of manned space flight nor a condemnation of money spent on space exploration in general. All I'm saying is that this is not the RIGHT time because there are more urgent matters at home and your desire here is a significant expense with a self-limiting and NON-URGENT return. It'll KEEP.

Well, considering we could reduce the defense budget by the amount we pay for NASA without the DoD even noticing, I think we are pretty safe with continuing the program we have. I agree that we should not be throwing major increases to NASA. We need NASA to learn not to waste money like they have with the broken Ares program. Ares failed when it became "shuttle derived" in name only. Jupiter is a better system but NASA won't use it out of pride. We can only hope Ares V lite inherits some of the work done for Jupiter.

Oh, yea, I missed the Apollo missions by a couple years. But I have watched the Skylabs, Apollo/Soyuz, and most shuttle launches from my BACKYARD.(see, I can yell in all caps too) I figure I have about the same time left to see a Mars landing as you. More than likely it will be a commercial mission, not NASA. SpaceX be praised!

 

[Squiggy]

1. the space shuttles will be retired within the next 18 months.

STS-133 is scheduled to launch on September 16, or just over 9 months from now.

 

[John Picard]

Obama aims to ax moon mission

NASA's plans to return astronauts to the moon are dead. So are the rockets being designed to take them there — that is, if President Barack Obama gets his way.

When the White House releases his budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was supposed to return humans to the moon by 2020. The troubled and expensive Ares I rocket that was to replace the space shuttle to ferry humans to space will be gone, along with money for its bigger brother, the Ares V cargo rocket that was to launch the fuel and supplies needed to take humans back to the moon.

There will be no lunar landers, no moon bases, no Constellation program at all.

In their place, according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's long-awaited plans for the space agency, NASA will look at developing a new "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low Earth orbit. But that day will be years — possibly even a decade or more — away **READ THE ARTICLE FOR MORE**

I'm all for more exploration using probes, robots, and unmanned vehicles. They're cheaper and very reliable. Use them until technology develops to a point when man *really* needs to travel beyond the moon.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

I'm all for more exploration using probes, robots, and unmanned vehicles. They're cheaper and very reliable. Use them until technology develops to a point when man *really* needs to travel beyond the moon.

It's not technology that will create this iperative. It's population pressure, John Picard. It's the need for resources, necessary for sustaining the economic/agricultural growth.

 

[ConRefit79]

Aries 1, Aries 5 and Orion are dead. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,6969808.story Typical waste from the Federal Government. They start something then kill it when a new Administration comes to power. Time to remove NASA's direction from control of the Federal Government. Reminds me of the SSC and X-33.

 

[sojourner]

^If you knew anything about Ares you would know this was good news. That program has been a mess from the start. They should adopt Direct/Jupiter.

This article also has no new news. It's just regurgitated reporting.

Also, can someone point to where in the article it says Orion is canceled? Orion is one of the few things that may actually survive the Constellation program. Most likely it will end up flying on manrated Atlas 5's.

 

[Lindley]

At first glance it sounds like they're taking the Flexible Path option recommended by the panel a few months back. If so, this is a good thing.

 

[omegaone]

As I said in the other thread there will allways be problems, get rid of pork and other crap before attacking the peanuts NASA gets....

Have my doubts about flexible path why go there if yah cant land on Mars etc

 

[drychlick]

yes now is not the time for any big plan too much money on any moon plan ! but we have 4 billton year till the sun goes nova! so we have the time

 

[omegaone]

and if an Asteroid hits us in the mean time?

 

[Dusty Ayres]

That article says that it would cost 3 billion per year beyond the current NASA budget.

So, the amount of money the government spent to give to people to get them to throw away perfectly good cars and buy a new car that they don't need and probably can't afford would have funded the project for another year.

Building better transit and better automobiles is hardly a waste of money, except to people who vote for a leader who takes a lot of time off, can't speak properly, and sends people off to die in bogus wars based on bogus intel. And who didn't care about space travel before, or do anything about it himself.

Just that one useless program, let alone the trillions spent to dismantle the health care system or to bail out Wall Street.

I thought that people like yourself loved Wall Street, to the point of beating up Michael Moore when he or anybody else criticizes it, and to the point of buying stocks in the hope of striking it rich. And your mediocre 'health care' system is not much worth saving, anyway.

But a hundred billion or so to go to the moon and on to Mars? Hell no, we can't afford that. What, are you nuts?

I was expecting this as sure as the sun coming up in the morning, but it still makes me angry.

Hey Sherlock, he didn't, and hasn't, acted on anything yet.

I can't say I disagree with the recommendation to dump Ares. The whole Constellation program seems like a step back from the space shuttle. Personally (irrelevant opinion), I'd rather see them putting heavy resources into a next generation reusable craft

Me too. And I wish that said next generation craft be spaceplanes like the ones that were planed in the US and the UK, and in pre-war Germany by Eugen Sanger.

Time to drag NERVA off that dusty shelf.

Something I've been saying for a while.

 

[ConRefit79]

I would like to get to Mars sooner. But the simple fact is, we can't. Even if we had the money we could not go. They can't keep the damn toilet working on the IIS. On a Mars mission, there are not spare parts for everything. You can't turn around. At minimum you looking at 18mths. That is the whole point in going to the moon. We need something relatively close to test methods and technology for long term trips.

As for using Direct Jupiter, we have billions of $'s and years invested in Ares. The test flight last year went better than expected. So why scrap it now? We're already going to be out of manned space travel for 4+ years after the Shuttle is retired this year. That will be even longer if we start over now. Finish the program you have. I would consider scrapping it if Ares I-X failed, but it didn't. We can debate whether to finish the moon part of it.

Don't get me wrong, initially I did not agree with the design they were using. So much was being wasted. I was hoping for a smaller version of the shuttle or at least a completely reusable system which preserves the service module. I don't like the flex plan either, because they take the time and money to assemble a large craft and throw it away after the return trip. You would think it would be worth the extra money to park it in orbit for reuse.

 

[ConRefit79]

Forgot to mention, I do support using nuclear for deep space flights. Would be great if they could get a gaseous core reactor working. I wonder if they could use a Liquid metal cooled nuclear reactor, liquid metal fast reactor?

 

[John Picard]

I would like to get to Mars sooner. But the simple fact is, we can't. Even if we had the money we could not go. They can't keep the damn toilet working on the IIS. On a Mars mission, there are not spare parts for everything. You can't turn around. At minimum you looking at 18mths. That is the whole point in going to the moon. We need something relatively close to test methods and technology for long term trips.

As for using Direct Jupiter, we have billions of $'s and years invested in Ares. The test flight last year went better than expected. So why scrap it now? We're already going to be out of manned space travel for 4+ years after the Shuttle is retired this year. That will be even longer if we start over now. Finish the program you have. I would consider scrapping it if Ares I-X failed, but it didn't. We can debate whether to finish the moon part of it.

Don't get me wrong, initially I did not agree with the design they were using. So much was being wasted. I was hoping for a smaller version of the shuttle or at least a completely reusable system which preserves the service module. I don't like the flex plan either, because they take the time and money to assemble a large craft and throw it away after the return trip. You would think it would be worth the extra money to park it in orbit for reuse.

Go to Mars for ---? Are we that much in need of ice?

 

[ConRefit79]

Go to Mars for ---? Are we that much in need of ice?

Eventually to colonize Mars. But first we need to explore that world in person.

If we stay here, sooner or later we'll go extinct. Either we'll wipe each other out, competing for resources and political stupidity. Some will just want to conquer. Or, we could be wiped out by some kind of cataclysmic natural disaster or plague. By expanding out into the solar system and eventually the stars, we reduce the risk of extinction.

 

[John Picard]

Go to Mars for ---? Are we that much in need of ice?

Eventually to colonize Mars. But first we need to explore that world in person.

If we stay here, sooner or later we'll go extinct. Either we'll wipe each other out, competing for resources and political stupidity. Some will just want to conquer. Or, we could be wiped out by some kind of cataclysmic natural disaster or plague. By expanding out into the solar system and eventually the stars, we reduce the risk of extinction.

Yeah, and the H1N1 virus is going to get us Take a course in biology, where you'll learn that the more educated and economically prosperous a country/people become, the more the birth rate declines. But, go ahead and keep repeating the "Oh noes, teh sky iz falling" mantra

 

[Meredith]

Seems like we won't be able to reach Mars or the Moon again at least untill 2100.

That is unless someone comes up with an extremely easy way to generate Zero Point Energy that is easily converted to electrical energy using a wad of chewing gum, tinfoil, a kettle, and bits of small multicolored string. Then another person comes up with a sure fire way to convert electrical energy into inertial gradients that can easily be controlled by using a toaster oven, shrinky dinks and a roll of duct tape.

Right now it kind of feels like we are going backwards and that the stars are just as far away as they were in the late 1800's when we only had the fanciful musings of H.G. Wells to placate those whose gazes were directed upwards towards the heavens.

 

[ConRefit79]

Yeah, and the H1N1 virus is going to get us Take a course in biology, where you'll learn that the more educated and economically prosperous a country/people become, the more the birth rate declines. But, go ahead and keep repeating the "Oh noes, teh sky iz falling" mantra

It sure looks like it fell on the dinosaurs.