Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Johnny Rico, Sep 8, 2009.
I think that China will catch up to, then surpass, the West when it comes to manned space exploration. This actually might be a good thing, as it could spur a new "space race", with China this time, not the old USSR.
I do find it odd that the US could go to the moon, several times, using 1950's/1960's technology, and then has never gone back. It's like Columbus discovering the new world--and then Europe never returning because of the cost of building some big new boats. Not exactly the same thing, but you get my point.
I know it's a matter of political will, and the desire to spend huge sums of money on space research, but come on--it should still be a matter of national pride that the US gets back to the moon with a manned presence.
As Sojourner says, the Saturn V 1st stage-derived booster was a later proposal for an interim booster once it became clear that there wasn't the budget to develop the fully reuseable booster (and, to be honest, as a proposal it probably had a lot to do with Boeing wanting to keep a share of the pie).
All Soviet craft were built to be ground controllable, not just Buran - partly for dual use (Vostok also flew unmanned as the Zenit spy satellites), partly due to the medics' early worries about whether pilots could function in space, and also for political reasons (so the pilots could be over-ruled by ground control if they tried to land in the west).
One of the sillier things was that on Vostok 1 the manual controls were actually locked, and could only be turned on if Gagarin entered a PIN number that the capcom would relay up from the ground if needed. But as the ground controllers and designers were worried that they might lose communications, at least three of them grabbed a chance to whisper the combination in Gagarin's ear before launch...
Recently the powers that be in Washington decided that it would be too expensive to go back to the moon. Additional funding for the space program was not approved. They'd rather give that money to bank presidents, oil company execs, and car companies ... just to name a few.
They would probably argue that these moves help sitmulate our aeconomy, but what about the creation of jobs and new technologies in our efforts to expand beyond the confines of this planet. Earth won't last forever, and typical of our powers that be, they will remain too complacent until it may be too late to do something about our civilization and culture.
As Trekkers, we are for the most part dreamers. Trek is our escape mechanism, our coping device outside of our normal everyday lives. Some of us are lucky enough that Trek is our everyday life. But we need to be more than that. We need to be advocates for our space program. I want to see man on another planet before I die, and at the rate they're moving, my grandchildren will be lucky to see us on another planet. I have several grandchildren, most of them want to be sports stars or rock stars when they grow up. As a society we have successfully quashed the childhood dream of becoming an astronaut. One of my youngest grandchildren is a Stars Wars buff. He is only 5 and there is the potential for that old childhood dream to be reborn thru kids like him.
Write your legislators, talk to your friends and family about it. Help replant the seed and we can get the idea to grow. It will be through people like us that our space program can be reborn, but we need to let Washington know that this is what we want.
Post your efforts and ideas here so that I know that I don't stand alone.
I talk about issues like this in my forum... pay a visit and read additional posts.
No, if you read the thread, you would know that the Augustine Commission reported that at current levels there is not enough money with the current plan NASA is using. NO DECISION HAS BEEN MADE by Obama on providing addition funds, changing the goal, or changing the plan to achieve that goal. Please stop spreading FUD.(Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt)
And it's not a recent decision. It was decided in the early 70s to stop going back to the moon.
Do you remember when Apollo 19 landed? Of course you don't. Because it was canceled because it was too expensive.
Obama cancelled 18 and 19??? It's obvious that he dosen't know Jack Schmidt!
...and no, ASTM does not count, that was a "Thank you" gift to Deke.
I'm not spreading FUD, but trying to stimulate interest and action. I'm free to post what I post unless the moderator says otherwise... have a nice day.
The problem is that you are misrepresenting the facts. If you want to post your opinion, then please state that in your post. Otherwise, please provide some kind of proof of your statements.
I'm over this Sojourner, let's move on. We're both probably disrupting the thread and I extend my apologies for that.
As you said, the Moon/America analogy is quite inexact. It would be acceptable if America would be a lifeless desert, with few usable resources.
And national pride only goes so far - it stops short of several billion dollars in expenses (when there's no mortal enemy to humiliate).
About the development of new technologies or about relieving the population pressure/assuring humanity's continued survival - all these are long-term objectives.
Humanity was never too good at long-term thinking. And this goes double for someone who stays in power for only 4 years.
Maybe the new administration should nationalize the space program!
Perhaps the better comparison should be made to Leif Eriksson and the Viking expeditions to Vinland, rather than Columbus.
Excellent. Which means funding for Ares?
The budgets for the Departments of Education and Energy should be cut in half, with those slashed funds being sent straight to NASA. If any type of government spending is a waste it's those two Agencies.
By all means, let us cut funding for agencies that provide education for our children and energy to run our society in favor of MORE pretty pictures of Earth and of idiots bouncing around in micro-g and more useless rocks...
You ARE a fool!
Education is, essentially a state controlled function. So, cutting the Dept. of Ed. budget doesn't necessarily mean a cut to schools.
It's like reading a raisin brain box... two scoops of fruit.
Quick question -- Why was the Department of Energy created, and when?
To date, please tell me how many people it employs. Also, please tell me if the DOE has solved the issue it was created to resolve. (FYI - The Department of Energy does NOT supply energy).
If the Department of Education is so successful, why do test scores in the US continue to rank so low out of industrialized nations.
It is best you rethink your statement as to who the actual "fool" is.
Separate names with a comma.