Spoilers NX Class in Beyond

[yenny]

The dates threw me off at first as well. However I think the Franklin was the first Warp 4-capable ship launched pre-2151. The Warp 5 Enterprise NX-01 was then launched in 2151. The Franklin was still in service in 2161 when the Federation was founded and the ship's registry number was changed. The MACO's were disbanded and integrated into the new Federation Starfleet and Edison was given command of the Franklin which was then lost 2161-2164ish.

Edison also referenced fighting the Xindi...since he would have been a MACO during that time he could possibly have been on NX-01 Enterprise which was the ship which sought out the Xindi.

The MACOs were on loan to Star Fleet to serve on the Enterprise, while she searches for the Xindi planet destroyer weapon. At the same time, Earth Naval, Star Fleet and MACO forces were sent to keep Xindi military forces occupy. Edison was station on one of the starships that took part of that mission.

I think the Franklin was lost in 2161 or 62.

 

[Klondike307]

The MACOs were on loan to Star Fleet to serve on the Enterprise, while she searches for the Xindi planet destroyer weapon. At the same time, Earth Naval, Star Fleet and MACO forces were sent to keep Xindi military forces occupy. Edison was station on one of the starships that took part of that mission.

I think the Franklin was lost in 2161 or 62.

I would push the date forward a few more years since he also mentions war with the Romulans. Also he never said he directly fought against Xindi, only that he witnessed their attack on Earth.

 

[yenny]

I would push the date forward a few more years since he also mentions war with the Romulans. Also he never said he directly fought against Xindi, only that he witnessed their attack on Earth.

Even though it wasn't mention that he'd fought in the Xindi war, doesn't mean he did. Also, he haven't mention he have been giving a desk job. Either one would been correct.

 

[erastus25]

Enterprise didn't make much sense anyway.

FTFY

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

The Franklin had an NX registry.
It's not an NX class ship, bit it may very well have been part of the same project.
After they were finished with test flights in rocket sized 1-2 man cockpits, they needed to test their warp engines on a larger scale.
I think this is were the Franklin came in.
It already uses the saucer design but seemed pretty barebones and crude.
Not as elegant as the final designs of the finished NX class.
But as a testbed for a starship sized engine (hence Starship class), it got the job done and pushed the warp barrier to Warp 4.
Starfleet used what they learned from her and managed to finetune it for the slightly larger serial model, which would eventually go on to run a sustainable warp 4.5 cruising speed able to push for Warp 5 for a short period.
When the wars with the Xindi and Romulans broke out, Starfleet probably pulled any spaceworthy frame they had from mothballs, including the Franklin.
The retrofittet her with a few puls cannons and spatial torpedos (no fancy phaser cannons or photons, she was never designed for those or as adaptable as the NX class).
After the war, they used surviving ships like her to give somewhat meaningful post to any war veterans who didn't leave the service.

How is that for fitting the ship into canon?

 

[Dick Whitman]

That works for me. The ship certainly looks pre NX 01 design wise. the thing that is throwing everyone of is its numbering. But it easy to imagine it got a new designation following the founding of the Federation.

The alternative option does not make much sense. Would the Federation Starfleet have launched an experimental ship with a former MACO solider as its Captain? NO. It would have launched earlier with its original crew of explorers and scientists.

 

[Oso Blanco]

But it easy to imagine it got a new designation following the founding of the Federation.

The question is, why did it still have an NX prefix? Shouldn't it be NCC instead?

Would the Federation Starfleet have launched an experimental ship with a former MACO solider as its Captain?

Why would they give a ship to a MACO soldier in the first place?

 

[Dick Whitman]

Where in any film or tv episode, meaning the canon works, did it ever gives the meaning or rules of what NCC means or how it is applied? I think fans are seeing a mistake based on theories provided by outside sources and their own conjectures.

 

[Kemaiku]

All Daedalus class ships in the Romulan War novels had hull numbers, some over 100, meaning Starfleet mass produced several designs like the Daedalus, Neptune, Intrepid etc before the NX class was started.

 

[Timo]

Okay, anybody got the exact wording of Scotty's memorized? "The first Earth ship to reach warp four"?

I was also thinking that Edison may have served on the NX-01, since I don't think there was any other opportunity for a MACO to fight a Xindi.

As per "The Slaver Weapon", there were four Xindi wars. The last may have been the one in ENT S3, with the first three only retroactively recognized as the doings of the same multispecies bunch of heavies (of which the feline Xindi were among the nastiest)...

The only problem with the theory you guys are all going for is that in the TV series ENT, it sounds like there was no intermediate step between the warp 2 engine and warp 5 engine.

That's not what "First Flight" tells. There was no warp 2 engine in that episode - only a warp 5 engine that went through several prototyping stages, achieving various speeds at various stages. Nothing there indicated that Robinson should have been the first human to travel faster than warp 2, only that he happened to hit that speed with that engine - without any mention of this being a record. (Instead, the one record he made was being the first person, supposedly with the definer "from Earth" attached, to launch an escape pod at warp!)

Freighters not yet having warp 4 engines is not all that interesting, because they still don't have anything better than warp 2 in TOS "Friday's Child"...

And it was definitely an Earth ship which was transferred to the Federation Starfleet upon the formation of the Federation. Scotty called it an Earth ship, and then records show that Edison was given command of it after MACO had been disbanded.

But the TOS NCC-1701 was also an Earth ship in addition to being a Federation Starfleet vessel, so that doesn't really tell us much.

Whether the Franklin predated the UFP Starfleet or not remains open to debate. Her armaments surprisingly include "spatial torpedoes", a weapon that might not get installed aboard a ship built after the formation of the UFP because it had proven impotent in the 2150s already and at least accompanied if not superseded by the photon(ic) torpedo in that timeframe, too.

The question is, why did it still have an NX prefix? Shouldn't it be NCC instead?

Not if she's experimental when she serves in the UFP Starfleet. It's not as if the other known NX-designated ships in the UFP SF would have been quick to shed their experimental status.

Why would they give a ship to a MACO soldier in the first place?

Why not? Some of the MACO in ENT S3 showed proficiency in operating the hero starship, suggesting they were veterans of that sort of stuff. The US Army has ships today - the people operating those might see Navy service in certain fictional circumstances.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Oso Blanco]

As per "The Slaver Weapon", there were four Xindi wars.

The Xindi were mentioned in TAS? I don't believe so ... gotta check it out.

Not if she's experimental when she serves in the UFP Starfleet.

She was far from being experimental when she got lost in that nebula ... she should have gotten an NCC registry, that would also make a lot more sense regarding the following number.

Some of the MACO in ENT S3 showed proficiency in operating the hero starship, suggesting they were veterans of that sort of stuff. The US Army has ships today - the people operating those might see Navy service in certain fictional circumstances.

The MACOs never had their own ships ... and they never went to Starfleet Acadamy. Would anyone give some Iraq veteran command of an aircraft carrier or submarine these days? I doubt that!

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

He is referring to the fan theory equating the Xindi and Kzinti I believe.

TAS refers to Earth-Kzin wars, not Xindi.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

The Federation operates ships with different prefixes (NAR for example) so it doesn't seem that far out there that pre-existing Earth Starfleet ships retained their old prefixes, especially since the formative years of the Federation and its Starfleet are still relatively unknown.

 

[Timo]

The Xindi were mentioned in TAS? I don't believe so ... gotta check it out.

Xindi, Kzinti... When you've got a mouth full of fangs, or a swollen head like Krall's, you really can't tell the difference!

She was far from being experimental when she got lost in that nebula

How so?

The Defiant apparently remained experimental till her destruction. The Constellation in ST6:TUC had an NX registry and a mission of testing warp engines in an era when several of her sisters in the Constellation class were in NCC registry and performing "regular", "operational" missions. It's apparently fine for a ship to remain "nnexed" for a large portion of her career.

The MACOs never had their own ships

This was never stated in ENT.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Who knows - maybe it was a reference to TAS - in which case colour me impressed, Mr Pegg.

 

[Count Zero]

Are you guys sure that Krall said Xindi? To me, it sounded more like Kzinti. If I remember correctly, they were supposed to show up in ENT's season 5.

I also believe that Scotty said the Franklin was "one of the first ships" that could fly at warp 4. That leaves some leeway. Even if it was built after Enterprise it would still be one of the first. Maybe Starfleet came up with a less sophisticated design to mass produce for the Romulan War. Also, while Enterprise and Columbia were capable of reaching Warp 5 they rarely did. Their cruising speed was Warp 4 or 4.5. It's quite possible that an engineer like Scotty might think about it like that.

Also, let's not forget that there are about 100 years between the ENT era and this movie. Even today's military vehicle afficionados would probably not have a detailed knowledge of the tank development during the First World War a hundred years ago.

 

[Timo]

I also believe that Scotty said the Franklin was "one of the first ships" that could fly at warp 4.

I'm predicting some flame wars over this wording until we get the script - and that won't end the wars, because the script loses to what is actually seen or heard on screen...

In any case, Scotty seems to remember this ship very well. It would help if she really were unique, an actual "firster" rather than an "also-ran".

Of course, we need screencaps, too. What was visible on that dedication plaque, besides the name, the registry, and the STARSHIP CLASS thing?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Are you guys sure that Krall said Xindi? To me, it sounded more like Kzinti. If I remember correctly, they were supposed to show up in ENT's season 5.

I'm not actually sure - I considered both when I heard it, but just assumed they had gone with the more famous Xindi.

But it would be awesome if he said Kzinti, because along with the Romulans, they were perhaps Earth's oldest enemy.

 

[OpenMaw]

Xindi. All the other references to Enterprise around it make that pretty rock solid.

 

[Timo]

There were plenty of TOS and TNG references there, too (all the way down to the end credits). Why not TAS?

That Krall has so much trouble speaking is a great excuse for interpretations here! (That the collar-mounted UT on the traitress is such a clumsy thing is not to my liking, though.)

Timo Saloniemi