Spoilers NX Class in Beyond

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Captain59, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. yenny

    yenny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The MACOs were on loan to Star Fleet to serve on the Enterprise, while she searches for the Xindi planet destroyer weapon. At the same time, Earth Naval, Star Fleet and MACO forces were sent to keep Xindi military forces occupy. Edison was station on one of the starships that took part of that mission.

    I think the Franklin was lost in 2161 or 62.
     
  2. Klondike307

    Klondike307 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I would push the date forward a few more years since he also mentions war with the Romulans. Also he never said he directly fought against Xindi, only that he witnessed their attack on Earth.
     
  3. yenny

    yenny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Even though it wasn't mention that he'd fought in the Xindi war, doesn't mean he did. Also, he haven't mention he have been giving a desk job. Either one would been correct.
     
  4. erastus25

    erastus25 Commodore Commodore

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    FTFY
     
  5. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Franklin had an NX registry.
    It's not an NX class ship, bit it may very well have been part of the same project.
    After they were finished with test flights in rocket sized 1-2 man cockpits, they needed to test their warp engines on a larger scale.
    I think this is were the Franklin came in.
    It already uses the saucer design but seemed pretty barebones and crude.
    Not as elegant as the final designs of the finished NX class.
    But as a testbed for a starship sized engine (hence Starship class), it got the job done and pushed the warp barrier to Warp 4.
    Starfleet used what they learned from her and managed to finetune it for the slightly larger serial model, which would eventually go on to run a sustainable warp 4.5 cruising speed able to push for Warp 5 for a short period.
    When the wars with the Xindi and Romulans broke out, Starfleet probably pulled any spaceworthy frame they had from mothballs, including the Franklin.
    The retrofittet her with a few puls cannons and spatial torpedos (no fancy phaser cannons or photons, she was never designed for those or as adaptable as the NX class).
    After the war, they used surviving ships like her to give somewhat meaningful post to any war veterans who didn't leave the service.

    How is that for fitting the ship into canon?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
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  6. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    That works for me. The ship certainly looks pre NX 01 design wise. the thing that is throwing everyone of is its numbering. But it easy to imagine it got a new designation following the founding of the Federation.

    The alternative option does not make much sense. Would the Federation Starfleet have launched an experimental ship with a former MACO solider as its Captain? NO. It would have launched earlier with its original crew of explorers and scientists.
     
  7. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    The question is, why did it still have an NX prefix? Shouldn't it be NCC instead?

    Why would they give a ship to a MACO soldier in the first place?
     
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  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    Where in any film or tv episode, meaning the canon works, did it ever gives the meaning or rules of what NCC means or how it is applied? I think fans are seeing a mistake based on theories provided by outside sources and their own conjectures.
     
  9. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    All Daedalus class ships in the Romulan War novels had hull numbers, some over 100, meaning Starfleet mass produced several designs like the Daedalus, Neptune, Intrepid etc before the NX class was started.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, anybody got the exact wording of Scotty's memorized? "The first Earth ship to reach warp four"?

    As per "The Slaver Weapon", there were four Xindi wars. The last may have been the one in ENT S3, with the first three only retroactively recognized as the doings of the same multispecies bunch of heavies (of which the feline Xindi were among the nastiest)...

    That's not what "First Flight" tells. There was no warp 2 engine in that episode - only a warp 5 engine that went through several prototyping stages, achieving various speeds at various stages. Nothing there indicated that Robinson should have been the first human to travel faster than warp 2, only that he happened to hit that speed with that engine - without any mention of this being a record. (Instead, the one record he made was being the first person, supposedly with the definer "from Earth" attached, to launch an escape pod at warp!)

    Freighters not yet having warp 4 engines is not all that interesting, because they still don't have anything better than warp 2 in TOS "Friday's Child"...

    But the TOS NCC-1701 was also an Earth ship in addition to being a Federation Starfleet vessel, so that doesn't really tell us much.

    Whether the Franklin predated the UFP Starfleet or not remains open to debate. Her armaments surprisingly include "spatial torpedoes", a weapon that might not get installed aboard a ship built after the formation of the UFP because it had proven impotent in the 2150s already and at least accompanied if not superseded by the photon(ic) torpedo in that timeframe, too.

    Not if she's experimental when she serves in the UFP Starfleet. It's not as if the other known NX-designated ships in the UFP SF would have been quick to shed their experimental status.

    Why not? Some of the MACO in ENT S3 showed proficiency in operating the hero starship, suggesting they were veterans of that sort of stuff. The US Army has ships today - the people operating those might see Navy service in certain fictional circumstances.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  11. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    The Xindi were mentioned in TAS? I don't believe so ... gotta check it out.

    She was far from being experimental when she got lost in that nebula ... she should have gotten an NCC registry, that would also make a lot more sense regarding the following number.

    The MACOs never had their own ships ... and they never went to Starfleet Acadamy. Would anyone give some Iraq veteran command of an aircraft carrier or submarine these days? I doubt that!
     
  12. INACTIVEUSS Einstein

    INACTIVEUSS Einstein Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He is referring to the fan theory equating the Xindi and Kzinti I believe.

    TAS refers to Earth-Kzin wars, not Xindi.
     
  13. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Federation operates ships with different prefixes (NAR for example) so it doesn't seem that far out there that pre-existing Earth Starfleet ships retained their old prefixes, especially since the formative years of the Federation and its Starfleet are still relatively unknown.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Xindi, Kzinti... When you've got a mouth full of fangs, or a swollen head like Krall's, you really can't tell the difference!

    How so?

    The Defiant apparently remained experimental till her destruction. The Constellation in ST6:TUC had an NX registry and a mission of testing warp engines in an era when several of her sisters in the Constellation class were in NCC registry and performing "regular", "operational" missions. It's apparently fine for a ship to remain "nnexed" for a large portion of her career.

    This was never stated in ENT.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  15. INACTIVEUSS Einstein

    INACTIVEUSS Einstein Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Who knows - maybe it was a reference to TAS - in which case colour me impressed, Mr Pegg.
     
  16. Count Zero

    Count Zero No nation but procrastination Moderator

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    Are you guys sure that Krall said Xindi? To me, it sounded more like Kzinti. If I remember correctly, they were supposed to show up in ENT's season 5.

    I also believe that Scotty said the Franklin was "one of the first ships" that could fly at warp 4. That leaves some leeway. Even if it was built after Enterprise it would still be one of the first. Maybe Starfleet came up with a less sophisticated design to mass produce for the Romulan War. Also, while Enterprise and Columbia were capable of reaching Warp 5 they rarely did. Their cruising speed was Warp 4 or 4.5. It's quite possible that an engineer like Scotty might think about it like that.

    Also, let's not forget that there are about 100 years between the ENT era and this movie. Even today's military vehicle afficionados would probably not have a detailed knowledge of the tank development during the First World War a hundred years ago.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm predicting some flame wars over this wording until we get the script - and that won't end the wars, because the script loses to what is actually seen or heard on screen...

    In any case, Scotty seems to remember this ship very well. It would help if she really were unique, an actual "firster" rather than an "also-ran".

    Of course, we need screencaps, too. What was visible on that dedication plaque, besides the name, the registry, and the STARSHIP CLASS thing?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. INACTIVEUSS Einstein

    INACTIVEUSS Einstein Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not actually sure - I considered both when I heard it, but just assumed they had gone with the more famous Xindi.

    But it would be awesome if he said Kzinti, because along with the Romulans, they were perhaps Earth's oldest enemy.
     
  19. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Xindi. All the other references to Enterprise around it make that pretty rock solid.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There were plenty of TOS and TNG references there, too (all the way down to the end credits). Why not TAS?

    That Krall has so much trouble speaking is a great excuse for interpretations here! (That the collar-mounted UT on the traitress is such a clumsy thing is not to my liking, though.)

    Timo Saloniemi