NX-01 and Dilithium?

[TrekkieMonster]

Hi gang,

I'm wondering if any of you Treknologists might be able to answer what I foolishly thought would be a simple question.

In relation to a fanfic idea I'm working on, I sort of need to know whether the NX-01 used dilithium crystals, as in later starships. I'm afraid I must confess that I'm not as well-versed in ST: Enterprise lore as I am in the other series. I've done some research and, while I have found some very thorough and interesting discussions of various theories on how the Warp 5 engine worked, I have not yet come across any "canon" (and I use that term advisedly) reference to the use of dilithium in the NX-01 engine.

Any chance anyone can point me to an on-screen reference, one way or the other?

And, though I understand novelizations are not considered "canon" by many, for my purposes I would be curious about any references anyone's aware of there, as well.

Thanks in advance for any info you might be able to provide.

 

[AstroSmurf]

My brain is a little slow today and I can't remember exactly when and where it was referenced but Trip referred to the "dilithium matrix" on several occasions.

Don't quote me on this but I believe they mentioned something about it in "Affliction" and "Divergence" when attempting to rid themselves of the Klingon computer virus. The earliest reference may have been in "Cold Front". Phlox may have also said something about it in "Doctor's Orders".

Let me do some checking to confirm at least one of those references.


Edit to add: I did a quick check through my notes and found that the most concrete reference was in "Doctor's Orders". Phlox mentions the "dilithium matrix" at time index 34:30, while attempting to start the warp core. I hope that answers your question.

(And to help define that term, a matrix might refer to more than one crystal or clusters of crystals being used to control the reaction. With warp technology at a somewhat rudimentary state during this time period, I would assume that the matrix and crystal use would be somewhat larger and more robust than in later core designs. I realize that I am making some large extrapolations from a simple throw-away line in one episode but you have to start somewhere.)

And if you need any further information about the tech of the NX-01, feel free to ask. I would be happy to help.

 

[TrekkieMonster]

Muchas gracias for the info!!! That actually helps quite a lot. You're smurftastic!!!

*EDIT* And, furthermore, with the correct terminology (i.e., "dilithium matrix") I was able to find plenty of reference material (apparently, "Cold Front", "Oasis" and "Doctor's Orders" contain specifics), so thanks even more!

 

[AstroSmurf]

You are very welcome. I never get to talk about the tech of this era anymore so it was my pleasure.

 

[Whorfin]

Sigh, yes, Dilithium (not even Lithium crystals), and Matter/Antimatter reactors. Contradicting what was said in "Balance of Terror". The idea apparently was: 'But that's an old, poorly made show, and who would watch that anyway?'

And cloaking devices, and photon torpedoes, Akiraprise, and everything else. Makes my poor old TOS head explode sometimes. Apologies for the histrionics.

 

[Delta1]

And a Vulcan in Starfleet before Spock, and, and, and no respect for fanon whatsoever!

 

[Praetor]

Sigh, yes, Dilithium (not even Lithium crystals), and Matter/Antimatter reactors. Contradicting what was said in "Balance of Terror". The idea apparently was: 'But that's an old, poorly made show, and who would watch that anyway?'

I'd argue that the only thing that gets anywhere near a direct contradiction is this:

And cloaking devices, and photon torpedoes

 

[Birdog]

And a Vulcan in Starfleet before Spock, and, and, and no respect for fanon whatsoever!

Was it actually stated in TOS that Spock was the first Vulcan in the fleet?
I know it was stated that he was the first academy grad.

 

[John O.]

Sigh, yes, Dilithium (not even Lithium crystals), and Matter/Antimatter reactors. Contradicting what was said in "Balance of Terror". The idea apparently was: 'But that's an old, poorly made show, and who would watch that anyway?'

I'd argue that the only thing that gets anywhere near a direct contradiction is this:

And cloaking devices, and photon torpedoes

*Enters to dramatic fanfare*

Have no fear, Enterprise, the defender of your canonicity is here!

They called them photonic torpedos! So NEUH!

...cloaking devices I can't do much for, because the Romulan Warbirds were cloaking in that show. The real hardcore people who care enough about canon but love ST:E enough to insist it's consistent, basically argue one of two things: that as the Romulan ship designs got larger, they discontinued use of the cloaks because it started to require too much power (drew from weapons, engines, etc); or two, that it was a very early and flawed cloak design that Starfleet & Allies soon developed a way to track and so the Romulans abandoned it for some time until the TOS/TNG era or w/e that canon says it came along.

As far as how the engine works, and the dilithium... and all that good stuff... also check Divergence, and possibly Dead Stop. Other'n that, I got nothin sorry.

The Spock-in-Starfleet issue as far 'what's on paper' is fine. He can very well be the first Vulcan Academy Grad, although to tell you the truth a few other things about the history of that time don't make that make terribly a lot of sense. For instance, the Starfleet Academy emblem has 2161 as its date of founding on it, suggesting that with the end of the Romulan War and the founding of the Federation, the Academy was institutionalized officially. It's kind of a bummer to the whole "we're a united Federation" attitude to suggest that it was another.... what... I don't know when Spock was born *gasp*, 80-90 years until a Vulcan actually managed to go there and graduate?

In my ST:E universe, T'Pol becomes a member of the science faculty at SFA after the Romulan War, and sponsors at least one Vulcan student in entering. This is before I was aware of the TOS canon mention of Spock being the first - but like I said, I side with common sense over canon -sometimes-, since there -ARE- existing contradictions even within the same canon. Especially in TOS. *gasp*

I will admit, in some aspects, ST:E crapped all over the TOS universe. Then again... nuBSG crapped all over the BSG-78 universe, didn't it? *runs for dear life*

 

[Falconfire]

And a Vulcan in Starfleet before Spock, and, and, and no respect for fanon whatsoever!

Was it actually stated in TOS that Spock was the first Vulcan in the fleet?
I know it was stated that he was the first academy grad.

I think it was meant in jest, as in much of what was stated here was fanon and thus should really never be looked at as being fact.

And yes CANON places Spock as the first Starfleet grad, but certainly not the first starfleet vulcan as there is a WHOLE ship of them with a Earth name ala the Intrepid.

 

[Timo]

The dilithium issue is definitively described in "Bound", where the Orion chick makes one of Archer's crew rant and rave about his technological know-how:

KELBY: The injectors feed into the dilithium chamber.
D'NESH: That's where the matter and antimatter mix.
KELBY: That's right.
D'NESH: The crystals let you control the reaction.
KELBY: That's right.

So that's basically the TNG setup right there. And since this setup now bookends TOS in chronological terms, we could just as well say that TOS engines worked on this very same dilithium principle. After all, there's nothing in TOS to directly contradict this.

Nor is there anything in TOS to establish that

1) Spock would have been the first Vulcan in Starfleet
2) Spock would have been the first Vulcan graduate of SF Academy
3) photon torpedoes would be a new invention as of the 2260s
4) Klingons would be a recently met enemy, or one first met in 2218
5) Romulans would not know how to build a warp drive

All of those are mere myths, albeit rather common ones.

However, TOS does establish rather blatantly that our 2260s heroes think of invisibility as a "theoretical" possibility only, not a practical historical fact. So ENT does create a bit of a contradiction there, or then it requires us to think that Kirk and Spock were ignorant.

Basically, I don't see why we should insist that the 23rd century was different from the 22nd one in technological terms. The real 13th century wasn't all that different from the 12th, after all. It's perfectly possible that TOS-style technology was an absolute prerequisite for having Archer-style adventures, and that no noticeable progress then happened between Archer and Kirk's adventures.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JNG]

Yes, the implication is that the Vulcans chose to be educated among their own people and culture rather than the more integrated Starfleet Academy, with the Intrepid references suggesting that at least some of them then served in Starfleet as part of all-Vulcan crews; Mr. Spock, being a half-breed, broke from his father's expectation that he'd continue living mainly as a Vulcan and decided to try things on the deep end of the pool.

I can buy that the Vulcans were a bit slow to integrate, with their cultural attitudes toward emotional behavior being notably different from any other known Federation member, and especially that they'd maintain a belief in the superiority of their own educational systems. Heck, I might believe in the superiority of their educational systems.

The Romulan cloaking in "Minefield" was later regarded as a mistake within the production itself, so I suggest to take it easy on that issue. But it may also have been a form of holographic pseudoinvisibility--a capability that would seem to be compatible with their technology in the fourth-season episodes.

The "photonic torpedoes" thing is lame no matter how one rationalizes it, as was the repaint of the existing torpedo casing prop (as opposed to the era-appropriate spatial torpedo prop, which had a certain rakish charm about it). But since gamma-ray photons seem to be involved as a detonation product and there's no implication that the torpedoes can go faster than light (is there?? I sure don't remember one), the name isn't too hard to live with.

 

[Timo]

The Romulan cloaking in "Minefield" was later regarded as a mistake within the production itself, so I suggest to take it easy on that issue. But it may also have been a form of holographic pseudoinvisibility--a capability that would seem to be compatible with their technology in the fourth-season episodes.

The problem with ENT isn't the Romulans, or the exact nature of the invisibility technology. The problem is that ENT showed several players (Romulans coincidentally among them) possessing functional invisibility. So that makes it impossible for an educated 23rd century Starfleet officer to consider invisibility "theoretical"...

We thus cannot try the usual rationalization where cloaking technology gets outdated by modern sensors which get outdated by modern cloaking which gets outdated by even more modern sensors and so forth. None of that will help explain how something that was observed to be practical at one point becomes merely theoretical at a later point.

On the other hand, I don't see what the problem with photon(ic) torpedoes is. Previously, some of us thought that these weapons were invented in the 23rd century. We now know better - they were invented in the 22nd. There's nothing wrong with that in treknological terms (although it may be a bit of a cop-out in dramatic terms).

Nor is there anything wrong with 22nd and 23rd century photon torpedoes looking near-identical. 19th, 20th and 21st century torpedoes in the real world look basically identical, too - right down to the standardized 21 inch diameter.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TrekkieMonster]

Oh God ..., this is exactly what I feared would happen when I dared to bring up an ENT issue. It's part of the reason I posted here instead of in the ENT forum.

Look folks, I may agree with some of the canon-buster issues raised, but haven't those been hashed and re-hashed (and re-re-re-re-re-hashed) more than enough already? The horse is dead. I promise.

Problem is, whatever anyone may think of the tech introduced in ENT, it's now part of "canon". So, for those who value that canon, we've got to find a way to blend it with pre-ENT canon. It's the "catch-22" of being a Trek "canonite".

And, to be honest, I've always found it a great fun challenge to "bootstrap" explanations of seemingly contradictory on-screen Trek tid bits in the stories I've written. A couple popular examples are the statement from "Balance of Terror" that the Romulan ships' power was "simple ion", or the seemingly out of sequence registry number of the USS Constellation in "Doomsday Machine." To me, the ENT tech issue is no different, now that it's out there.

So, part of my mission, if you will, with this fan fic -- in addition to hopefully telling a compelling story -- is to try to present one possible explanation of how some of the seemingly contradictory Trek tech issues between ENT and TOS might be explained.

So, for instance, the reason I asked about the dilithium issue (suspecting that dilithium was, in fact used, but being unable to find a direct reference at the time) is that my tale takes place on a ship during the Romulan War era, but a ship with older tech, including warp tech. My "take" on things, if you will, is that NX-01 (and 02 and any other NX class ships that may exist at the time) might well be rather rare in the fleet; top of the line technologically, but expensive and taking a long time to build. But, the idea is that there would most likely be all kinds of older ships running around out there, of all descriptions, as well. Sort of analogous to the first couple seasons of TNG. The Galaxy Class was clearly the height of Star Fleet tech at the time, but there were all kinds of Exclesior, Miranda, Soyuz and even Oberths running around.

I'm hoping to maybe find a way that we can "all just get along."

And Timo, thank you very much for this additional bit of support.

The dilithium issue is definitively described in "Bound", where the Orion chick makes one of Archer's crew rant and rave about his technological know-how:

KELBY: The injectors feed into the dilithium chamber.
D'NESH: That's where the matter and antimatter mix.
KELBY: That's right.
D'NESH: The crystals let you control the reaction.
KELBY: That's right.

 

[AstroSmurf]

^ That sounds very interesting... the story idea and finding a way for all of us to "get along". It's a long shot but I have hope. And you are so right. It is fun coming up with your own bridges within continuity! It takes some thought, a little research and imagination, all of which is very entertaining.

And Timo I had completely forgotten about that little exchange. Thank you! It's funny. I don't even have it in my notes. But my memory is not what it used to be. That mental quantum singularity opens up and sucks things in more and more often these days.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^ Here's my two quatloos worth, if you've got a really good story with a really vital plot twist, and the only way you can tell your story, without compromising it, is by violating some obscure canon trivia, then by all means screw canon! However, this is not a license to rewrite canon just because you're too lazy to do the proper research, which is what has generally happened in the past, I think? If you can tell your story without violating canon, then by all means do so! And really, when you stop and think about it, each ST series has, to a certain degree, introduced it's own conon, which sometimes is, and is sometimes not, able to overlap w/ other series' canon? So perhaps we should consider each ST series (and movie) as taking place in it's own 'parallel universe' or alternate 'probable' future?

 

[sojourner]

Wait, I don't get all this hub-bub over Enterprise. It was revealed in the last episode that the entire show was holo-fiction. We weren't seeing true historical records. We were watching a dramatization, and we all know how badly inaccurate Hollywood historicals are.....

Problem solved.

 

[TrekkieMonster]

Wait, I don't get all this hub-bub over Enterprise. It was revealed in the last episode that the entire show was holo-fiction. We weren't seeing true historical records. We were watching a dramatization, and we all know how badly inaccurate Hollywood historicals are.....

Problem solved.

LOL! Sort of like Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

Or am I showing my age with that reference?

 

[Praetor]

Wait, I don't get all this hub-bub over Enterprise. It was revealed in the last episode that the entire show was holo-fiction. We weren't seeing true historical records. We were watching a dramatization, and we all know how badly inaccurate Hollywood historicals are.....

Problem solved.

LOL! Sort of like Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

Or am I showing my age with that reference?

Well, I'm not old enough to have watched that show when it first aired but I got it, so if you hadn't mentioned it...

 

[TrekkieMonster]

Wait, I don't get all this hub-bub over Enterprise. It was revealed in the last episode that the entire show was holo-fiction. We weren't seeing true historical records. We were watching a dramatization, and we all know how badly inaccurate Hollywood historicals are.....

Problem solved.

LOL! Sort of like Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

Or am I showing my age with that reference?

Well, I'm not old enough to have watched that show when it first aired but I got it, so if you hadn't mentioned it...

Damn young whippersnappers!

Someone fetch me my ear trumpet.