Numbah One?

[Kobayshi Maru]

^ Good point. The script doesn't address it explicitly, simply refering to him as "science officer", but Sonak does have the stripes, so it's not unreasonable to assume he might have been in the running for XO under Decker:

KIRK: Commander Sonak, you received your appointment as Enterprise science officer?
SONAK: Based, I am told, on your recommendation, Admiral. Thank you.
KIRK: Why aren't you on board?
SONAK: Captain Decker requested I complete final science briefing here before we leave on our mission.

That's too bad that a transporter malfunction turned him into something... that fortunately didn't live long...

I thought transporters were safe!!!

 

[Marsden]

Dr. McCoy was right all along.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Dr. McCoy was right all along.

That's why he did live to be a hundred and forty... and more.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It was a narrative mistake to not to make any cast changes post The Best of Both Worlds, Riker's character arch as "Number One" had come to its natural conclusion and he was ready to move on. Keeping him on the show/keeping him on the show without moving him up to Captain just meant keeping a character around with whom everything had been done, pointlessly standing around on the bridge.

I'm at odds with myself to say what would have been better, letting Riker (by becoming captain of another starship) go or Picard (by either dying or retiring to Earth). Probably keepng Picard would have upset less of the audience, but making Riker the captain would have been the bolder move.

I personally would have loved Shelby as First Officer, better than just internally promoting Worf or Data. The question is how well would she have meshed with the others? That's an important question when including a new character into an ensemble cast. Her an Riker (if e had ended up staying) would have had an interesting dynamic. But how would she have meshed with Beverly or Troi?

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Riker as a character peaked in BOBW. He achieved the very thing that he wanted to most, or what we'd been told he wanted most (what was shown is entirely different), a starship command.

After the two-parter, he either should've been made the official lead of the series and captain of the Enterprise. Or the character should've departed the show, replaced by Shelby or a similar female character as first officer.

Keeping Riker as first officer afterward effectively castrated the character. The show at that point needed something to shake it up, change it in someway — either Riker as captain and Shelby as first officer, or Picard as captain with Riker leaving the Enterprise.

Stewart is obviously the stronger actor and I have a hard time imagining Frakes as the series lead. Frakes is a great guy, but he isn't as dynamic an actor as Stewart nor is he as charismatic as Shatner.

I do feel that Shelby, both the character and actress, would've made a fine addition to the show. TNG really needed a character that could shake things up, push people's sh*t in a bit — which is why I liked Pulaski over Crusher. And it's probably why the producers eventually created the role of Ro.

I know some folks look at Shelby as "who the hell does she think she is." I know I did when BOBW first aired. But she was right in Part One and I really loved that professional tension/conflict with Riker. A conflict that all but evaporates in Part Two. But it'd have been wonderful had she stayed and the writers kept a professional conflict between Shelby and whoever was the captain. I always found Riker a bit of a "yes man" when it came to Picard. I longed for Riker to have more disagreements on command decisions, as was seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise" and was set up in "Encounter at Farpoint."

 

[Makarov]

I think it would go against the nature of the show to have Riker leave. Not even Data had drastic changes and was basically his same self all the way up to All Good Things. Sure Picard getting assimilated had some follow up mentions, but for the most part you could watch a season 6-7 episode and never even know it happened.

TNG is a show with relatively static characters I don't expect Riker to really change any more than Troi or Picard did over the years. He's just part of the team and so I find him staying with the team perfectly in tune with the nature of TNG.

 

[Nebusj]

I think it would go against the nature of the show to have Riker leave. Not even Data had drastic changes and was basically his same self all the way up to All Good Things. Sure Picard getting assimilated had some follow up mentions, but for the most part you could watch a season 6-7 episode and never even know it happened.

In some ways it's unfortunate Next Generation wasn't made about ten years later on. In 2001, having something like Picard take a backseat the season while Captain Riker finishes out his First Officership (and maybe has something happen that incapacitates him) for the fours season would work, as would having Riker and maybe some of the others who're tired of the grind go off to another ship and be seen every couple of episodes as support on, oh, the Starship Excelsior NCC-2001-B or something like that.

But Next Generation probably couldn't have successfully launched a decade later; among other things there wouldn't be the independent stations with timeslots to fill for it (a situation, admittedly, that TNG helped bring about) and as much as we were impatient with the first two seasons in 1987-89, to go through them in 1997-99, when there's so much other, good, TV on would be crushing.

 

[Mojochi]

There was bound to be missteps on the show given that TNG flirted on both sides of the fence, in being an episodic show that experimented with story arcs for at least some of its characters. Worf & Data received a great character arcs. Riker, not so much. While I don't see him being the captain/lead character, I do feel it was a misstep to just leave him in place

Though in my fandom heart I'd have loved a spin that resulted in Frakes remaining on the show in a role like Thomas Riker, because it could've altered only a little bit of the cast dynamic, while offering up a wide berth of story opportunity, I just don't think the show's environment was open to anything like that. Frankly they just wanted to return to the status quo and quietly put behind them a rather hefty blow did to them in the S3 finale, by introducing the idea to begin with. Solution: quietly sweep under rug.

Giving Will his own command is clearly the right choice for the story. Keeping Picard in the captain's chair was clearly the right choice for the show. Now, there's easily ways to do all that and keep the cast together. It's sci-fi after all, but I just don't think anyone had the balls or pull to carry any of them out. I don't think they trusted the audience enough, but truthfully, I think we'd have jaw dropped if they'd promoted Riker out, only to have Frakes resurface an episode or 2 later as Thomas. It would'be been epic, basically introducing him as a new character.

 

[Makarov]

I think a less episodic kind of TNG would be unrecognizable from what we know and love.

Here's the slippery slope I'm imagining...

• Picard crying about the Inner Light for an entire season. He brings it up at least once per episode.
• Troi / Riker dating in seasons 2,3 and then he gets replaced with Thomas Riker for a few years. But who is the father of Troi's baby?
• Data actually becoming very human like in the final few seasons. To the point they stop putting on the Data makeup on Brent Spiner.
• Worf actually leaves starfleet for a season or two instead of for a small portion of one episode and we see him doing unrelated Klingon stuff.
• An entire season spent in Time's Arrow with Mark Twain as a main character rather than 2 episodes.
• All the bridge crew end up married with kids by season 7 and we get baby drama episodes.

 

[Orphalesion]

• Troi / Riker dating in seasons 2,3 and then he gets replaced with Thomas Riker for a few years. But who is the father of Troi's baby?

Data, he's fully functional.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

• Troi / Riker dating in seasons 2,3 and then he gets replaced with Thomas Riker for a few years. But who is the father of Troi's baby?

Data, he's fully functional.

Functional yes but he doesn't have human DNA...

 

[Orphalesion]

• Troi / Riker dating in seasons 2,3 and then he gets replaced with Thomas Riker for a few years. But who is the father of Troi's baby?

Data, he's fully functional.

Functional yes but he doesn't have human DNA...

That's why it was a joke.

Still, Data would be a better father than Riker, I'm sure you agree

 

[Mojochi]

Still, Data would be a better father than Riker, I'm sure you agree

Different, sure. I wouldn't necessarily say better though. That kid in Future Imperfect seemed to think he was a good choice for a dad. I also figure Troi will have kids with him, now that they're back together

 

[borgboy]

Still, Data would be a better father than Riker, I'm sure you agree

Different, sure. I wouldn't necessarily say better though. That kid in Future Imperfect seemed to think he was a good choice for a dad. I also figure Troi will have kids with him, now that they're back together

Troi and Riker have a baby in the Titan novels. I'm not sure if their daughter is mentioned in the STO game.
Personally, I think Data would make a better father than Riker, but that's not to say Riker would be a bad father. Data is just so good with Lal.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I think it would go against the nature of the show to have Riker leave. Not even Data had drastic changes and was basically his same self all the way up to All Good Things. Sure Picard getting assimilated had some follow up mentions, but for the most part you could watch a season 6-7 episode and never even know it happened.

In some ways it's unfortunate Next Generation wasn't made about ten years later on. In 2001, having something like Picard take a backseat the season while Captain Riker finishes out his First Officership (and maybe has something happen that incapacitates him) for the fours season would work, as would having Riker and maybe some of the others who're tired of the grind go off to another ship and be seen every couple of episodes as support on, oh, the Starship Excelsior NCC-2001-B or something like that.

But Next Generation probably couldn't have successfully launched a decade later; among other things there wouldn't be the independent stations with timeslots to fill for it (a situation, admittedly, that TNG helped bring about) and as much as we were impatient with the first two seasons in 1987-89, to go through them in 1997-99, when there's so much other, good, TV on would be crushing.

I don't know. On one hand, if tng was made in the late 1990s or later, we may have seen characters with more preminant growth or change, and the show would have had a more serial feel. Byt e same token, we might not have had shows that followed, including ds9, voyager, enterprise, babylon 5, battle star galactica, stargaze sg1,atlantis, xfiles or a lot of other great sic if shows, had it not been for tng.

That said, I thing sg1 comes close to what tng might have been like had tng been produced around the same time. I personally have always wondered what a trek series helmed by glassner and wright would look like, ever since sg1, and I think it might have been pretty awesome.

 

[Orphalesion]

Troi and Riker have a baby in the Titan novels. I'm not sure if their daughter is mentioned in the STO game.
Personally, I think Data would make a better father than Riker, but that's not to say Riker would be a bad father. Data is just so good with Lal.

Yeah they have a daughter and I think in novels set further into the future she gets together with the son of Picard and Beverly.

Yeah, Lal was what I was referring to. You get the feeling that Data's child could be anything and he'd love them still with all his heart.
With Riker... I have a few reservations because I don't see him as fully emotionally mature (at least during the series), though by the time of Nemesis he might be. Still, let's speculate for a moment his child doesn't want to join Starfleet...

 

[Mojochi]

Personally, I think Data would make a better father than Riker, but that's not to say Riker would be a bad father. Data is just so good with Lal.

That's pretty much how I feel. I don't even think it would be fair to say one would be better than the other. They'd probably be totally different, but equally effective. For one, Riker seems like he'd be more fun, & Data seems like he'd be more attentive. I doubt there's ever been a cat owner in all of known history who was as attentive to their cat's needs. : lol:

 

[borgboy]

Troi and Riker have a baby in the Titan novels. I'm not sure if their daughter is mentioned in the STO game.
Personally, I think Data would make a better father than Riker, but that's not to say Riker would be a bad father. Data is just so good with Lal.

Yeah they have a daughter and I think in novels set further into the future she gets together with the son of Picard and Beverly.

Yeah, Lal was what I was referring to. You get the feeling that Data's child could be anything and he'd love them still with all his heart.
With Riker... I have a few reservations because I don't see him as fully emotionally mature (at least during the series), though by the time of Nemesis he might be. Still, let's speculate for a moment his child doesn't want to join Starfleet...

You guys above have kind of captured some of what I was thinking but didn't verbalize. I imagine I wouldn't get on that well with Riker as a dad, that I wouldn't be the kind of son he'd want. I'm not terribly outgoing and adventurous for starters. I wouldn't be a good fit for Starfleet. While I agree that Data would be completely accepting of his child no matter what. As a gay man of conservative religious parents, I've had issues with not being accepted or really getting unconditional love, so I have a lot of admiration for Data's complete acceptance and lack of judgements. Not that any of the main characters in Star Trek (outside of Quark maybe) wouldn't have issues with orientation, but still.
It's strange to realize that I think Data is the best parent in Star Trek.

 

[Makarov]

Riker would be a great dad I think, the real question is would you want Deanna Troi for your mom.

I think the best dad would be Geordi. He can make the best toys, fix stuff, and he doesn't take human relationships for granted.

 

[borgboy]

I'm sure Troi would be a very warm and loving mother, but you wouldn't be able to get away with anything.
I could totally see Geordie being a great dad.

 

[Marsden]

Giving Will his own command is clearly the right choice for the story. Keeping Picard in the captain's chair was clearly the right choice for the show. Now, there's easily ways to do all that and keep the cast together. It's sci-fi after all, but I just don't think anyone had the balls or pull to carry any of them out. I don't think they trusted the audience enough, but truthfully, I think we'd have jaw dropped if they'd promoted Riker out, only to have Frakes resurface an episode or 2 later as Thomas. It would'be been epic, basically introducing him as a new character.

It's easy to second guess over 20 years later, but it's too bad there couldn't have been some kind of actual promotion for Riker that he was a Captain, did something wrong or lost his command and was sent back to Picard as an attempt to reabilitate him to be a Captain some day. It's contrived, but he'd only be off the show for maybe 2 to 5 episodes depending, maybe even half a season. Maybe he made a mistake something like Wesley ends up doing later on and is about to be actually courtmartialed out of Starfleet and Picard learns about it and gets him his old XO job back, lets Shelby or whoever has been the XO for him for the last few episodes get their own command and then Riker is back under Picard's watchful gaze. I think it could have been a good two parter and really not shake up the dynamic of their relationship as it was portrayed because Riker did seem to "give up" and decide to wait for Picard to die to inherit the chair, so to speak, he even follows him to another ship in the movies. He really seems to be stuck to Picard. At least that would give him a reason why.


Here's an example:

In Family, Riker is offically promoted to Captain and accepts the ship USS Minnow. No other plot changes. Then the episodes continue with a new XO, maybe Shelby. About 4 to 10 episodes later, it's learned that the Minnow was crippled or destroyed attempting to save a ship full of refugees from the Sheliac Corporate causing a confrontation. When the results of the investigation are disclosed, Riker acted reasonably but in violation of regulations, which causes him to be blamed for the incident, more to placate the Sheliac than Starfleed actually blaming him. He is irritated at the situation that would put diplomatic manuvering before saving the refugees and resigns from Starfleet. Picard approaches him with his old job back as Shelby transfers to another assignment on Starbase 330 as new head of the Borg incursion task force that deals with any potential future threats from them. He reluctantly comes back at first but it can really be all forgoten by next episode.