Nudity taboos in Trek

[Richard S. Ta]

I recall visiting Korean communal baths with local work colleagues a few years ago. They all got totally nude and fully expected me to be shy, but I just thought "fuck it" and went for it.

It's a liberating experience.

 

[valkyrie013]

I'm glad to hear that! Sadly, I've never felt that way. But I'm working on it.

Ex wife was the same way. Grew up in a.. Well crappy family life. Dad always made her cover up.. Well everywhere.. . Takes time and a positive outlook. Honestly most of my girlfriends have had some kind of body positivity problem. Covering up, turning off the lights, etc.
Your you, and you love yourself warts and all.

With me it's that I 100% don't give a darn what other people that I will never see again think of me.

 

[Oddish]

But also think to a 100+ years ago.. Showing an ankle.. God forbid a midriff was scandalous. Just take a look at historical swimwear. Even guys wore whole suits.

Like I was saying. Then, over time, we got a lot less modest. And now, we seem to be headed in the other direction.

Somewhere in the 60's I think, skimpiness seemed to peak. Women wore bikinis, men wore speedo type suits, and you might see kids of both genders swimming topless. Strangely, it wasn't uniform. For awhile, jams were big, those knee length jobs. But now the bottoms have gotten shorter, but we have swim shirts for guys... it's been kind of interesting to watch. Just don't make me wear a shirt swimming.

 

[valkyrie013]

I've seen some overweight guys wear shirts, But Not regular body types.

I hope it doesn't go back to far.. That would be bad in my opinion.

But with Instagram and other avenues body shaming women and even guys.. Creating alot of phobias about your own body, how its not perfect so should cover up.. That's crap.
We used to say.. Different is okay, now it's you must fit in to this round hole.. ugh..
Glad I grew up before the internet..

 

[fireproof78]

I was insecure about my body before the Internet. I worked that out.

 

[Oddish]

The real trend seems to be with boys, a lot of them wear shirts. Many of these youngsters will likely continue to wear shirts as men, making it more the norm.

 

[fireproof78]

I will be curious to see.

Largely because the young people I work with have a very interesting point of view.

 

[Dukhat]

During production of TMP, Roddenberry wanted people, whole families even, to be walking around nude in public even around other clothed people. And the clothed people wouldn't even bat an eye, because social nudity would be completely accepted in the 23rd century. The nudity itself would be completely tasteful and not gratuitous. Of course there was no way in hell Paramount was going to show this. The closest Roddenberry ever got to realizing this was the whole Betazoid wedding thing, which of course was not shown on screen either.

It's a shame really, because the problem is that over time, nudity on screen has become far more gratuitous than tasteful.

 

[Orphalesion]

During production of TMP, Roddenberry wanted people, whole families even, to be walking around nude in public even around other clothed people. And the clothed people wouldn't even bat an eye, because social nudity would be completely accepted in the 23rd century.

It just doesn't make sense to me because there's a lot of better reasons not to run around naked than just "society doesn't like it"
Protection is a much better reason to continue to wear clothes; protection against the elements (rain, wind, snow, harsh sunlight, temperature) and protection of particularly vulnerable body parts (genitals, breasts for women doing certain activities) and walking around in a lot of terrains can be painful if you don't have any shoes (pointy stones, hot pavement, prickly undergrowth) And there's stuff like sitting down on a heated up metal bench without any clothes of. And you'll leave grease and sweat everywhere. And then there's even less appetizing aspects about the whole thing which I won't mention hear.
So to me that would be much more of a problem with people just running around in the nude all day than societal norms. It's just not practical in most situations.

but we have swim shirts for guys... it's been kind of interesting to watch. Just don't make me wear a shirt swimming.

See swimming with a shirt never was about modest for me, I purely do it to protect myself against UV rays and sunburn. Have done that since I was a kid.
Naturally I don't wear one when I visit an in-door pool.

 

[Dukhat]

It just doesn't make sense to me because there's a lot of better reasons not to run around naked than just "society doesn't like it"
Protection is a much better reason to continue to wear clothes; protection against the elements (rain, wind, snow, harsh sunlight, temperature) and protection of particularly vulnerable body parts (genitals, breasts for women doing certain activities) and walking around in a lot of terrains can be painful if you don't have any shoes (pointy stones, hot pavement, prickly undergrowth) And there's stuff like sitting down on a heated up metal bench without any clothes of. And you'll leave grease and sweat everywhere. And then there's even less appetizing aspects about the whole thing which I won't mention hear.
So to me that would be much more of a problem with people just running around in the nude all day than societal norms. It's just not practical in most situations.

You’re obviously not a nudist People who enjoy not wearing clothes in a semi-public setting (nude beaches, clubs, etc.) do it because they prefer the clothing-optional lifestyle when they can get it. Does that mean that a nudist will not wear clothes when it’s not practical to be naked? Of course not. A nudist will bundle up like an Eskimo when it’s snowing outside. When nudists hike, they wear hiking shoes; they don’t go barefoot. When nudists need to sit down, they carry a towel with them for that. When it’s raining, a nudist will use an umbrella. If it’s cold outside, a nudist will go inside where it’s warm. If a nudist is sweaty and hot, they will take a shower (preferably an outdoor shower.) So people can go without clothes and still be practical when necessary. Also, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been to a clothed beach and seen women constantly fumble to readjust their tops and bottoms when a wave hits them. It’s actually not that practical to wear clothing in that case.

 

[Oddish]

I consider myself an "anti-nudist". I know the exact date I last slept in the nude: August 24, 1971. Hard to put jammies on when you're still riding around inside your mom.

 

[Commander Troi]

Ex wife was the same way. Grew up in a.. Well crappy family life. Dad always made her cover up.. Well everywhere.. Takes time and a positive outlook. Honestly most of my girlfriends have had some kind of body positivity problem. Covering up, turning off the lights, etc.
Your you, and you love yourself warts and all.

Thank you. As I said, working on it. I need to get back to the gym - feeling stronger, being able to do more, and having better health were helping *a lot*.

I will be curious to see.

Largely because the young people I work with have a very interesting point of view.

Can you unpack that a bit? The teens and young adults I know definitely don't seem to have quite the same hang-ups. But I also know that social media is causing real problems for many young people too. I'd like to hear what you're seeing.

Protection is a much better reason to continue to wear clothes; protection against the elements (rain, wind, snow, harsh sunlight, temperature) and protection of particularly vulnerable body parts (genitals, breasts for women doing certain activities) and walking around in a lot of terrains can be painful if you don't have any shoes (pointy stones, hot pavement, prickly undergrowth) And there's stuff like sitting down on a heated up metal bench without any clothes of. And you'll leave grease and sweat everywhere. And then there's even less appetizing aspects about the whole thing which I won't mention hear.
So to me that would be much more of a problem with people just running around in the nude all day than societal norms. It's just not practical in most situations.

True! Phoenix in summer is too hot for nudity.

 

[Orphalesion]

You’re obviously not a nudist People who enjoy not wearing clothes in a semi-public setting (nude beaches, clubs, etc.) do it because they prefer the clothing-optional lifestyle when they can get it. Does that mean that a nudist will not wear clothes when it’s not practical to be naked? Of course not. A nudist will bundle up like an Eskimo when it’s snowing outside. When nudists hike, they wear hiking shoes; they don’t go barefoot. When nudists need to sit down, they carry a towel with them for that. When it’s raining, a nudist will use an umbrella. If it’s cold outside, a nudist will go inside where it’s warm. If a nudist is sweaty and hot, they will take a shower (preferably an outdoor shower.) So people can go without clothes and still be practical when necessary.

But as you say, nudists tend to be in places that are designed for their benefit. And while the towel is a good solution for those types of places and events...wouldn't it be rather tiresome to carry a towel with you everywhere if you'd lived your whole life in the nude like in that idea Roddenberry had? Wouldn't it be easier to just wear pants, a skirt or a toga rather than carry a towel around for every time you want to sit down...it public...at a restaurant...in your work place...
I have been to a nude sauna and aside from not liking saunas too much I didn't see anything wrong with it. The beach would be a bigger problem, because, again I'm light skinned and prefer the extra layer of protection against the sun (I mean I won't wear it the whole time, I'll take it off occasionally to get a bit of a tan going and get that good old Vitamin D, but after that I'll put the shirt back on).

 

[Dukhat]

The sarong is the most popular clothing item for nudists. It’s less of a towel but more than nothing. You can use it as clothing; you can sit on it when you need to sit down; you can use it to dry off when you’re wet; you can use it to carry things; you can wrap it around your head if it’s raining, etc. etc. etc.

Trust me when I say this: someone who is a die-hard nudist will do whatever they can to avoid wearing clothing unless there’s a practical situation where it is necessary. And carrying a towel is not the huge burden you’re making it out to be. It’s just something that comes with the territory. Like Douglas Adams said, it’s the most important thing you will ever have

 

[JoseNoodles]

Maybe it's a local fashion trend. Either way, if future men want to swim in T-shirts, or overalls, or clingy full-body coveralls like Seven's... not my problem.

 

[Orphalesion]

The sarong is the most popular clothing item for nudists. It’s less of a towel but more than nothing. You can use it as clothing; you can sit on it when you need to sit down; you can use it to dry off when you’re wet; you can use it to carry things; you can wrap it around your head if it’s raining, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah but a Sarong is already a lot more practical than carrying a towel, and I would call it clothing. I didn't know the exact word for it, but that's why I mentioned a toga, which is a similar sheet-based clothing that's relatively easy to put on an remove (at least the modern, Hollywood style of togas, real ancient Togas were complicated things) Whether they then open it up as often as they get a chance to do so is a different topic, but still very different from whole families just running around stark naked all day, every day.

I mean not even the Ancient Greeks went around all day without some sort of sheet wrapped around some part of their body, and if it was just one of those poncho-cape things. And the Ancient Greeks LOVED nudity.

 

[valkyrie013]

Let's say, on the Enterprise D , in the aboritum or say a pool, or even a communal holodeck.
Would said pool be clothing optional?
I'd say yes.

 

[Orphalesion]

Let's say, on the Enterprise D , in the aboritum or say a pool, or even a communal holodeck.
Would said pool be clothing optional?
I'd say yes.

See, but I call that places that were probably designed for exactly that. Like Ancient Greek gymnasiums. There is probably little in those places that can cause discomfort or injury to a naked body.

 

[Dukhat]

Yeah but a Sarong is already a lot more practical than carrying a towel, and I would call it clothing. I didn't know the exact word for it, but that's why I mentioned a toga, which is a similar sheet-based clothing that's relatively easy to put on an remove (at least the modern, Hollywood style of togas, real ancient Togas were complicated things) Whether they then open it up as often as they get a chance to do so is a different topic, but still very different from whole families just running around stark naked all day, every day.

I mean not even the Ancient Greeks went around all day without some sort of sheet wrapped around some part of their body, and if it was just one of those poncho-cape things. And the Ancient Greeks LOVED nudity.

Well, it was Roddenberry’s want for people in the future to look upon social nudity not as a taboo, but as a norm that anyone could be free to choose or not choose, but that it wouldn’t be something gratuitous or harmful to society. But did he mean that those people would be nude 24-7-365? You’d have to ask him. I’m assuming he simply meant that if it was a nice spring day, and someone just wanted to walk around outside in the buff, that it would not be a big deal.

 

[scotpens]

Men are rarely seem wearing speedos anymore, longer shorts seem to be the thing.

Thank God! Hardly any man looks good in a speedo.