Novelverse "facts" you've taken into your head-canon

[JD]

Hmm, I concede your point. I wasn't aware there were such strict guidelines considering some of the drivel that has been published.

Of course, there are many shining gems in the novelverse too, so I guess it evens out.

You might want to watch the attitude there, we do have quite a few published Trek authors here. @Christopher, @Dayton Ward, @David Mack, @William Leisner, @Greg Cox, @Kirsten Beyer, @Lonemagpie, @JJMiller, and more I'm forgetting have all written at least one Trek novel.

According to the books, the Trill are marsupials. Even onscreen, they have natural pouches that the symbiont goes into. The books explain that the Trill normally use these pouches for their young.

I totally forgot about that, but it is a cool idea. I always like it when they add little things like that that make the human looking aliens a bit more alien.

 

[Kor]

So it stops being fanfiction when it's been officially licenced and published?

Officially licensed literature is not fan fiction. The term "fan fiction" by definition describes a hobby, a recreational pastime, not paid work done for hire and licensed by the license holder. And fan fiction often walks a thin line of tolerance from the license holder of the intellectual property being used.

Also, producers of live-action Trek can and have tapped into officially licensed Trek novels for background information to incorporate into Trek movies and TV shows. They would absolutely never do that with fan fiction distributed on the web or photocopied 'zines, no matter how good it may be.

Kor

 

[Greg Cox]

Regarding "fan fiction" and licensed "tie-in" fiction: It's not an issue of quality, just a matter of fish versus fowl. They're two different things, created under very different circumstances. Fan-fic is done for fun and not subject to any sort of editorial constraints and/or standards; if a writer wants Kirk to have sex with Santa Claus, more power to them. Or, less facetiously, if they want to kill off McCoy or invent an entire future history in which the Romulans conquer the Federation, they're free to do so.

The authorized stuff is done in conjunction with the licensor and intended for a wider, more general audience. Outlines, proposals, manuscripts, cover art, etc. are all approved by the CBS. The books aren't "canon," in that the onscreen shows are under no obligation to pay attention to them, but the books must be be consistent with the onscreen continuity as it exists at that time.

Again, no value judgments here. Just two very different animals.

 

[φ of π]

Regarding "fan fiction" and licensed "tie-in" fiction: It's not an issue of quality, just a matter of fish versus fowl. They're two different things, created under very different circumstances. Fan-fic is done for fun and not subject to any sort of editorial constraints and/or standards; if a writer wants Kirk to have sex with Santa Claus, more power to them. Or, less facetiously, if they want to kill off Chekov or invent an entire future history in which the Romulans conquer the Federation, they're free to do so.

The authorized stuff is done in conjunction with the licensor and intended for a wider, more general audience. Outlines, proposals, manuscripts, cover art, etc. are all approved by the CBS. The books aren't "canon," in that the onscreen shows are under no obligation to pay attention to them, but the books must be be consistent with the onscreen continuity as it exists at that time.

Again, no value judgments here. Just two very different animals.

Read and understood.

 

[φ of π]

You might want to watch the attitude there, we do have quite a few published Trek authors here. @Christopher, @Dayton Ward, @David Mack, @William Leisner, @Greg Cox, @Kirsten Beyer, @Lonemagpie, @JJMiller, and more I'm forgetting have all written at least one Trek novel.

I totally forgot about that, but it is a cool idea. I always like it when they add little things like that that make the human looking aliens a bit more alien.

What attitude?

You might want to watch your bias there.

 

[Leto_II]

Actually the "we are Romulans!" from way back in "Balance of Terror" alone contradicts the idea that "Romulan" is a name humans gave the Rihannsu.

This might be a misremembrance -- there's the scene where Lt. Stiles yells, "These are Romulans!!" at Kirk and the command staff in the conference room, but I can't remember any of the Romulan crew actually saying "We are Romulans" in the episode (the term "Romulan" is only uttered onscreen by the Starfleet crew, not by any of the Romulans themselves).

 

[F. King Daniel]

This might be a misremembrance -- there's the scene where Lt. Stiles yells, "These are Romulans!!" at Kirk the command staff in the conference room, but I can't remember any of the Romulan crew actually saying "We are Romulans" in the episode.

You know, I may be combining Stiles' outburst with Kruge's "We are Klingons!" from STIII. Apologies.

 

[φ of π]

I don't know about that person specifically, but usually when people say that published books or stories for "Star Trek" or "Tomb Raider" or what have you are "published fanfiction," it's just a slang term meaning, "it's not canon, and a reader can take it or leave it."

I missed this before, but yes. That's exactly how I meant it.

 

[JD]

What attitude?

You might want to watch your bias there.

It seems a bit rude to me to be dismissing proffesionally published stories as "fan fiction", and calling them "drivel".

 

[φ of π]

It seems a bit rude to me to be dismissing proffesionally published stories as "fan fiction", and calling them "drivel".

Is every single officially licenced Star Trek novel a paragon of literary genius, or would you say that SOME of the books are woefully sub-par?

And I'm not making any implication that fanfiction is worth less. That's your own opinion influencing what you're reading into my words.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

You might want to watch the attitude there, we do have quite a few published Trek authors here. @Christopher, @Dayton Ward, @David Mack, @William Leisner, @Greg Cox, @Kirsten Beyer, @Lonemagpie, @JJMiller, and more I'm forgetting have all written at least one Trek novel.

I totally forgot about that, but it is a cool idea. I always like it when they add little things like that that make the human looking aliens a bit more alien.

This.

This ain't 4Chan or the DA Forums, folks. We're not aboard the Millennium Falcon, we're aboard a Federation starship. Let's act accordingly.

 

[JD]

Is every single officially licenced Star Trek novel a paragon of literary genius, or would you say that SOME of the books are woefully sub-par?

Of course not, but I would at least try to find a less insulting way to say I didn't like it than calling it "drivel".

And I'm not making any implication that fanfiction is worth less. That's your own opinion influencing what you're reading into my words.

Your post came across to me as dismissive and rude, and I'm getting tired of sitting back and ignoring that kind of stuff. If that was a misinterpretation on my part, then I sincerely apologize.
I'm used to seeing people using "fan fiction" as an insult toward professional books and writers, so I had assumed that was the way you intended it.

 

[trampledamage]

You might want to watch the attitude there, we do have quite a few published Trek authors here. @Christopher, @Dayton Ward, @David Mack, @William Leisner, @Greg Cox, @Kirsten Beyer, @Lonemagpie, @JJMiller, and more I'm forgetting have all written at least one Trek novel.

This.

This ain't 4Chan or the DA Forums, folks. We're not aboard the Millennium Falcon, we're aboard a Federation starship. Let's act accordingly.

And as the actual moderator of the Trek Lit forum, may I remind both of you that you do not have the authority to tell other people on this forum how to behave. Please do not do this again, or I will issue a warning for it. If you have a problem with a post, either notify on it or PM me.

Nothing @φ of π has written has either a) broken any rules or even b) crossed any line of general politeness that I like to see on this forum.

He is allowed his opinions of Trek Lit, and if he thinks a large part of it is drivel, he's allowed to say so.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It seems a bit rude to me to be dismissing proffesionally published stories as "fan fiction", and calling them "drivel".

And yet there is a certain amount of stuff that can objectively be called drivel. Case in point almost anything from Marshak and Culbreath. And about 50% of what Bantam was putting out during the last year or so they had the license.

Still, I've read worse. Including a certain non-ST book that I have named before, but will not name here (yet somehow, not only did it get published, but so did two sequels!), that I regard as so unredeemably awful that I'm only holding onto my copy in order to keep it out of circulation (I'd destroy it, but I regard book-burning as being only slightly less heinous than murder or rape).

 

[trampledamage]

And I've read fan fiction that's as good as licensed publications. Christopher and Greg are correct: it's nothing to do with quality.

 

[JD]

And as the actual moderator of the Trek Lit forum, may I remind both of you that you do not have the authority to tell other people on this forum how to behave. Please do not do this again, or I will issue a warning for it. If you have a problem with a post, either notify on it or PM me.

Nothing @φ of π has written has either a) broken any rules or even b) crossed any line of general politeness that I like to see on this forum.

He is allowed his opinions of Trek Lit, and if he thinks a large part of it is drivel, he's allowed to say so.

Sorry.

 

[φ of π]

Of course not, but I would at least try to find a less insulting way to say I didn't like it than calling it "drivel".

Your post came across to me as dismissive and rude, and I'm getting tired of sitting back and ignoring that kind of stuff. If that was a misinterpretation on my part, then I sincerely apologize.
I'm used to seeing people using "fan fiction" as an insult toward professional books and writers, so I had assumed that was the way you intended it.

I also apologize.

It never occurred to me that many people might consider "fanfiction" a derogatory term. I often use the word with my friends when I joke about wishing I was good enough to be an author, and I've got used to regarding it as a playful term.

I'll be more thoughtful in the future.

If it helps, I also consider the Voyager episode "Threshold" and the Enterprise episode "A Night in Sickbay" to be drivel.

 

[JD]

I apologize to, it sounds like I took your post to be a lot nastier than it was intended. I honestly thought you were basically saying that you thought all Star Trek books are unprofessional crap.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

And certainly, most of what wound up in Bantam's two "New Voyages" anthologies started out as fanfic, even if it didn't remain that (Marshak and Culbreath were very explicit about going through fanzines for material), and I suspect that at least some of it made the 'zine-to-anthology transition verbatim (or nearly so). And given the rules of the SNW contests, certainly at least some of those pieces were of fanfic origin, even if none made the transition verbatim.

Maybe someday, some of my own fiction will make the transition. Probably not my two ST pieces ("The Gray People," an alternate Borg origin story, and "Interview with Dr. Ambrose Crater, or 'The Salt Vampire Ate My Parents'," a sequel to my least favorite TOS episode), but perhaps the stuff in francises I own outright. Certainly, even though the opening chapters of my novel turned out, when workshopped a few years ago, to be minefields of misread-bait, it couldn't possibly be even remotely as unspeakably bad as "the novel whose title I will not name here."

 

[Leto_II]

You know, I may be combining Stiles' outburst with Kruge's "We are Klingons!" from STIII. Apologies.

Ha, not a problem -- been there myself several times before too, believe me.