Nothing caused the universe

[Kai Winn]

I had a revelation recently. You know when you talk with the religious folks about where everything comes from, what 'created' it, and what its purpose is; to explain evolution and stuff is easy, but you get stuck with the big bang at the latest, and what caused all those natural laws which govern the universe and us. Actually, cause and effect came into existence alongside space, energy, matter and time with the big bang only, and according to Stephen Hawking, it's perfectly within the known laws of nature, that nothing caused the universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhd05ZVYWg&hd=1

 

[JarodRussell]

It's just the basic problem of language really. You can always ask "What came before?" God created the universe? Who created God? And who created the one that created God?

I believe I asked this in a thread some time ago: why have people a hard time accepting that the universe is an absolute that came out of nowhere, and instead create this God figure? And for THAT they actually do accept that it is an absolute that came out of nowhere.

 

[ryan123450]

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

 

[Tiberius]

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

How do you know that God is simple? Are you saying that complex things can come from simple causes? And if simple things can cause complex things, why not say that the universe came from nothing instead of saying it came from God? After all, nothing is a lot simpler than God.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

That description makes less sense than saying the universe had no cause. If anything could exist without having been caused, or always did exist, the same could just as easily be true about the stuff of which the universe is made. This also requires one less implausible assumption.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

Nope.

There is no thing that exists except that it is defined as different from another thing - your own attempt to define God contains that very flaw and cannot be revised to eliminate it.

That which is absolute is also empty; it's nothing at all.

It's not necessary for something to be created in order for it to be.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well, if Kai Winn says so, who am I to argue?

But I like the "two multiverses bumped" theory myself.

 

[Silvercrest]

Those two multiverses did more than bump. Now we know the real meaning of "the Big Bang".

 

[RoJoHen]

Universe 1: "I'm pregnant."
Universe 2: "You said you were on the pill!"

 

[Amaris]

Universe 1: "I'm pregnant."
Universe 2: "You said you were on the pill!"

J. Allen: "I hope you both don't mind, but I filmed everything."

 

[RoJoHen]

I had no idea you pre-dated the Big Bang.

 

[iguana_tonante]

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

I'd say the main difference is that the universe surely exists, while God... well, let's just say the answer is a lot less definitive.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

God is probably pointless to discuss in this forum, and by "probably" I mean "definitely."

 

[JarodRussell]

God is probably pointless to discuss in this forum, and by "probably" I mean "definitely."

It's a discussion about the origin of the known universe, which is exactly the point where science meets philosophy and religion.

The difference is God is the uncaused cause of everything, he is an ultimately simple reality, perfectly one, infinite in every way, indivisable, immutible, and eternal. These qualities are not the qualities of the universe.

Why and how?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

God is probably pointless to discuss in this forum, and by "probably" I mean "definitely."

It's a discussion about the origin of the known universe, which is exactly the point where science meets philosophy and religion.

Except science isn't concerned with any answers that are unscientific in nature. "God did it" doesn't tell us anything about what happened and how.

 

[RoJoHen]

Unless it does.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Unless it does.

Did you just answer one meaningless proposition with another?

 

[RoJoHen]

Always.

 

[Silvercrest]

Universe 1: "I'm pregnant."
Universe 2: "You said you were on the pill!"

J. Allen: "I hope you both don't mind, but I filmed everything."

I had no idea you pre-dated the Big Bang.

Pre-"dated", yes. But he didn't get lucky.

 

[MANT!]