Not rescuing Nero: thumbs up or down?

[SoM]

To me, one real plot hole in the movie was when Kirk and Spock acted completely out of character in finishing off a helpless Nero. It bothered the hell out of me. Kirk didn't seem all that serious about rescuing Nero. And Spock's response was almost flippant. No debate.
-- OK, Nero destroyed Spock's planet of six billion people. So, does that mean Spock is entitled to go "thumbs up or thumbs down" on Nero's life? No rescue attempt. Instead, let him die. In fact, kill him. Spock is exacting his own kind of revenge on Nero. But is that in character? Even for the Spock in this movie? Revenge is not logical. Killing Nero does not bring Vulcan back. Spock, any Spock, knows that.
-- Even Kirk knows that. Instead it's Kirk as executioner. What will he say in his log? That they decided not to try to save Nero and his crew? Instead, they actually opened fire on his ship as it fell into the black hole? Kirk was a warrior, and he killed, but he had no bloodlust. He didn't kill if he didn't have to. He never destroyed a helpless enemy. Apparently, like the Klingons, this young Kirk doesn't take prisoners.

Because what happened LAST time the Narada fell through a black hole, hmm?

Instead, he decided to stick around and fire on a ship that was already being destroyed by a black hole. What? Kill Nero before the black hole does?

Hint: Last time the Narada fell through a black hole, it was NOT the case that all hands were lost and the ship totalled...

 

[Cdr MacDuff]

Maybe a moment was lost. I'm wondering how the scene would've worked if it had been done the other way around. What if Spock had offered Nero rescue? Kirk looks at him like WTF. Then, what if Kirk had uttered Spock's line?

I also think it would have work MUCH better. It would have been within character for both. Well withing character for Kirk and growth for Spock.

The other good scenario, as mentioned, is no rescuing offer at all.

 

[Cirocco]

Spock's overwhelming too-human anger fuels his decision, and this is the Spock we don't know...he's not the cool, calm, and collected Vulcan we expect. Kirk offers assistance to Nero, even though the assistance is guided by Kirk's lip service to Spock's rational logical side. When Nero arrogantly rejects any of Kirk's overtures, all bets are off. Letting a genocidal maniac any possibility of escape would endanger more lives, and so Kirk becomes judge, jury, and executioner in one swift action. Of course, this plays well with any animosity he still harbors against Nero. I'm delighted at this turn-of-events, because this is not the Kirk and Spock I know from the past. They are cut from a different mold, forged by events that have unfolded around them. A new chapter, it would seem...

 

[RobertScorpio]

Young Spock had not yet attained kolinahr. The kolinahr is said to purge all remaining emotions.

That's an excuse.

Basically, Spock's a lippy kid who talks a good game about rationality and the virtues of dispassion, but that's evidently to please his dad and to lord it over the humans. Put some pressure on him and he's not as good as his word.

It doesn't destroy the character, but it undercuts him as someone to be taken seriously. Kirk, OTOH, is what he claims to be.

No, it's not an excuse. His planet was just destroyed by Nero and he was "emotionally compromised" as evidenced by him trying to kick the shit out of Kirk on the bridge. I don't think it's out of character for him to not want Kirk to save him. I think this is more believable than for him to argue with Kirk that he must be saved.

Im with you number one..totally. These people do not understand that this movie WORKED...and that scene was part of the reasons it worked. The movie is trying its very hardest to lower the TREKKIES ARE VIRGIN population out there...some of these folks just...dont....get it.

Rob

 

[RobertScorpio]

Young Spock had not yet attained kolinahr. The kolinahr is said to purge all remaining emotions.

That's an excuse.

Basically, Spock's a lippy kid who talks a good game about rationality and the virtues of dispassion, but that's evidently to please his dad and to lord it over the humans. Put some pressure on him and he's not as good as his word.

It doesn't destroy the character, but it undercuts him as someone to be taken seriously. Kirk, OTOH, is what he claims to be.

No, it's not an excuse. His planet was just destroyed by Nero and he was "emotionally compromised" as evidenced by him trying to kick the shit out of Kirk on the bridge. I don't think it's out of character for him to not want Kirk to save him. I think this is more believable than for him to argue with Kirk that he must be saved.

Im with you number one..totally. These people do not understand that this movie WORKED...and that scene was part of the reasons it worked. The movie is trying its very hardest to lower the STAR TREK FANS ARE VIRGINS population out there...some of these folks just...dont....get it.

Rob

 

[Silversmok3]

Here's a list of laws Nero broke:
Kidnapping and torturing starfleet officer.
Deliberate murder of a Starfleet Captain.
The massacre of at least 3 Federation starships in Vulcan Orbit
The destruction of the USS Kelvin
The massacre of 6 billion Vulcan lives and the destruction of their cultural history.
Anddddd...
Attempted genocide of Earth.

With that kind of rap sheet Nero wasn't worthy of redeption.Ill say it point blank-he deserved no mercy or compassion.If starfleet knew what he did they wouldn't be asking for a trial-it would be shoot on sight,IDIC be damned.Kirk had Nero in his sights once on the Narada ,and didn't kill him.And again,at the black hole Kirk choose the high road and offered salvation to the easily the worst criminal of the time,to say nothing of the man who killed his father-honestly,I woulda just left him to die.

It shames me to admit it,but at the moment Kirk made a decision that I wouldn't have made in the same shoes.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Nero didn't want redemption. I wouldn't have offered it, too, especially not in Spock's place.

 

[ST-One]

But the problem here is that the threat had ended, the Narada was being sucked into a black hole. Yes, saving him would leave open the question of what to do with Nero and his crew but, to me, it just seemed a bit too cavalier to say "okey-doke then, let's blow him up"

No, the threat had not ended.
The Narada was stuck in that black hole. It didn't have any mass to suck her in. Only after the Enterprise began to blow her up was she sucked in by her own mass. And the Narada's anti-matter from her warp-drive probably had some effect on the black hole that cause its pull to increase...

 

[Opus]

I loved the fact that this one moment perfectly crystalized their future relationship: Both are better because of the qualities each bring to the relationship. Kirk decides to try logic and reason, and Spock decides that, for this moment given the situation, shooting from the hip is better.

Also, we are going to have a different type of Spock in this alternate universe. This Spock won't have an estranged relationship with his father because of the death of his mother. He won't be as influenced by Vulcan lineage both because of its distruction and more importantly, meeting his older self from the other reality.

 

[Tralah]

I can't fault Spock or the writers for this scene. I think having your whole world and billions of your people killed including your mother killed would make me not inclined to help the person responsible, logic be damned. I would have found it much more hard to believe if Spock had advocated saving Nero.

 

[Cdr MacDuff]

Here's a list of laws Nero broke:
Kidnapping and torturing starfleet officer.
Deliberate murder of a Starfleet Captain.
The massacre of at least 3 Federation starships in Vulcan Orbit
The destruction of the USS Kelvin
The massacre of 6 billion Vulcan lives and the destruction of their cultural history.
Anddddd...
Attempted genocide of Earth.

With that kind of rap sheet Nero wasn't worthy of redeption.Ill say it point blank-he deserved no mercy or compassion.If starfleet knew what he did they wouldn't be asking for a trial-it would be shoot on sight,IDIC be damned.Kirk had Nero in his sights once on the Narada ,and didn't kill him.And again,at the black hole Kirk choose the high road and offered salvation to the easily the worst criminal of the time,to say nothing of the man who killed his father-honestly,I woulda just left him to die.

It shames me to admit it,but at the moment Kirk made a decision that I wouldn't have made in the same shoes.

Still they could have rescued him then torture him. They have taken the high road by letting him have his quick death.

 

[AlanC9]

Did Spock actually disagree with the decision to offer assistance? My impression was that Kirk asked ihm if he liked the idea, not if he thought it was the correct thing to do.

 

[Franklin]

Here's a list of laws Nero broke:
Kidnapping and torturing starfleet officer.
Deliberate murder of a Starfleet Captain.
The massacre of at least 3 Federation starships in Vulcan Orbit
The destruction of the USS Kelvin
The massacre of 6 billion Vulcan lives and the destruction of their cultural history.
Anddddd...
Attempted genocide of Earth.

With that kind of rap sheet Nero wasn't worthy of redeption.Ill say it point blank-he deserved no mercy or compassion.If starfleet knew what he did they wouldn't be asking for a trial-it would be shoot on sight,IDIC be damned.Kirk had Nero in his sights once on the Narada ,and didn't kill him.And again,at the black hole Kirk choose the high road and offered salvation to the easily the worst criminal of the time,to say nothing of the man who killed his father-honestly,I woulda just left him to die.

It shames me to admit it,but at the moment Kirk made a decision that I wouldn't have made in the same shoes.

And, it shames you a bit. Sure. Because it's about man's better angels and all. Overcoming the demons. The need for blood for blood. We feel it, and we know it's wrong. It's not really justice. It's noy what civilization stands for and how it survives.
It's not whimpy to believe in and live by virtues and codes of behavior our enemies may not follow. Within Trek, DS9 addressed issues in this vein quite often.

 

[QuasarVM]

I have a laundry list of problems with this movie but this isn't one of them. Kirk offered to help... certainly more than I would have done.

DITTO!!!

I would never have made that offer! I mean, are you kiddin me??!! After what he DID?

F him! It would have been all phasers and photon torpedoes.

 

[Cdr MacDuff]

I have a laundry list of problems with this movie but this isn't one of them. Kirk offered to help... certainly more than I would have done.

DITTO!!!

I would never have made that offer! I mean, are you kiddin me??!! After what he DID?

F him! It would have been all phasers and photon torpedoes.

Have you ever watched a Star Trek show before? That makes you no better than him which have annihilated every Vulcans because he hold them responsible for the death of his people and family.

 

[QuasarVM]

I have a laundry list of problems with this movie but this isn't one of them. Kirk offered to help... certainly more than I would have done.

DITTO!!!

I would never have made that offer! I mean, are you kiddin me??!! After what he DID?

F him! It would have been all phasers and photon torpedoes.

Have you ever watched a Star Trek show before? That makes you no better than him which have annihilated every Vulcans because he hold them responsible for the death of his people and family.

No, I'm better cos I'm not evil. And wouldn't have the deaths of an entire planet on my resume -- unlike Nero.

He deserved to die. Kirk made the only logical decision. He probably only offered to save him because Spock was standing there...

This guy Nero isn't even on the same level as the Romulan Cmndr in Balance of Terror. At least that guy was just following orders...and destroyed a military target -- not a planet full of innocent civilians.

Yup. Nero had to die.

And horribly.

 

[Scarpad]

Since this was a movie and not real life, and because I could care-a-less about IDIC and mushy Roddenberry mumbo-jumbo..I am glad the scene played out as it did...and so was the audience I was with because they cheered...and that is what is most important...

Star Trek plots with BALLS are the best (Khan--FC) Star Trek movie with pussy-ass stuff suck. And I'll let you decide which ones those are since there are a whole bunch of them

Rob

Welcome the new era of trek Fan.. god help us all.

 

[Cdr MacDuff]

DITTO!!!

I would never have made that offer! I mean, are you kiddin me??!! After what he DID?

F him! It would have been all phasers and photon torpedoes.

Have you ever watched a Star Trek show before? That makes you no better than him which have annihilated every Vulcans because he hold them responsible for the death of his people and family.

No, I'm better cos I'm not evil. And wouldn't have the deaths of an entire planet on my resume -- unlike Nero.

He deserved to die. Kirk made the only logical decision.

Sure thats easy to say when its all his people and family which are already dead.

 

[QuasarVM]

Yeah, but it was natural phenomena that killed Romulus...whereas Nero goes forth like an evil SOB and just destroys innocent people.

Even in the Countdown comic he was a bastard.

 

[MostlyHarmless1]

Thumbs down here.
Whatever the morals having Spock smirk as he light-heartedly suggests they destroy a ship full of people is out of character. Full stop. No debate.