Non-spoiler Picard discussion
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I don't care about online reviews. As said in the other thread, I'm not expecting genre-redefining television, just 10 hours of entertainment where I catch up with old friends and see them on another adventure.
Yeah, I just read a hilarious one on imdb:
* edited, because my phone wrote "community" instead of "Communist", as was in the original quote. I was talking from the imdb app, so it didn't let me copy the text, I had to copy it over manually.
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Is this your interpretation of the show?Problem is, TNG actually DID play to a lot of Conservative stereotypical thinking back in the day, and that's how it attracted some fans with a very Conservative political bent:
- The Starship Captain is an old white man who preaches the 'right way' is always 'the Federation (IE Establishment) way'.
- He's backed up by a second white man, who never (well you could count on one hand) really disagrees or questions any of his decisions (even when he himself states that's what his position will sometimes entail).
- One African American actor is playing the "Attack Dog" (non-human) character; who is kept in check by the old white man in Command.
- The Second African American actor is the one running (read: shoveling coal) into the engines.
- A Third female African American actor is ultimately just a Waitress/Bartender serving everyone else on the ship.
- There's a female Counselor who pretty much just restates the obvious things all the males have already picked up on; and is often just ignored or actively sidelined.
- There's a female widowed doctor (with her kid) who practically lusts after Picard (even though he lead the mission her late husband died on). WRT the Kid, even though he's more intelligent than most of the adults and brings up points they should have already realized, he's either ignored, or told to shut up (IE Kids should be seen and not heard and just do what the parents/adults say...)
Yep - TNG was very 'Liberal' for the 1980ies/early 1990ies.....oh, wait...
Also it’s kinda disingenuous to assume that’s how conservatives think.
It's certainly how many of the more vocal ones come loudly across.Is this your interpretation of the show?
Though I wouldn't assign that kind of mentality to everybody, it does seem with our current President it's the mainstay of Conservative thinking now-a-days.
Is this your interpretation of the show?
It's an interesting assertion. I believe Captain Smirk made a similar observation upon being introduced to Captain Ricardo's "well-balanced, multi-ethnic, equal opportunity team."
Taking Star Trek as anything but conservative is sort of fundamentally contradictory, when we follow heroes hailing from the root definition of Establishment. Kirk and Picard both represent the Military, defending the Laws, out there in Foreign Parts where things are Different. And then they put things Right, fighting off the foreign nonsense and making people see true Reason.
That this "starship Trek" might be a tad less militant than the average US TV show from the 60s or the 80s is neither here nor there from any viewpoint outside the US borders - fortunately, those less-than-less-militant shows just didn't spread much outside said borders.
However, I guess the important issue here is the internal viewpoint. Not from inside the US borders, but from within the fiction. Picard is less of a Nazi than Kirk was. Janeway, perhaps not that much of an improvement over Picard (insofar as leaning to the left improves upon leaning to the right), but certainly another improvement of sorts over Kirk, even if the sort is different from Picard's. The universe evolves, bowing to newly fashionable sensibilities, even if from the socialist viewpoint it still sits pretty far in the conservative side.
I really don't see the problem with it. It's very entertaining to watch TV shows about Nazis. Or about Vikings, or assorted cannibals or rapists or whatever. But this is not a requirement, nor is it necessary to equate Picard with cannibals. TV shows made from different viewpoints in general entertain more than those that merely offer comforting reinforcement of one's own ideas. Any costume drama properly done relies just as heavily on period ethics (or a clever subverting of those) as it does on period hairdos (or a clever subverting of those). The more of these foreign ethics, the more we get entertained, and the more we get to think. Gimme space Nazis, gimme Trump in space, gimme Jim Jones in space. And let me worry about whether I want to become them or not.
Timo Saloniemi
That this "starship Trek" might be a tad less militant than the average US TV show from the 60s or the 80s is neither here nor there from any viewpoint outside the US borders - fortunately, those less-than-less-militant shows just didn't spread much outside said borders.
However, I guess the important issue here is the internal viewpoint. Not from inside the US borders, but from within the fiction. Picard is less of a Nazi than Kirk was. Janeway, perhaps not that much of an improvement over Picard (insofar as leaning to the left improves upon leaning to the right), but certainly another improvement of sorts over Kirk, even if the sort is different from Picard's. The universe evolves, bowing to newly fashionable sensibilities, even if from the socialist viewpoint it still sits pretty far in the conservative side.
I really don't see the problem with it. It's very entertaining to watch TV shows about Nazis. Or about Vikings, or assorted cannibals or rapists or whatever. But this is not a requirement, nor is it necessary to equate Picard with cannibals. TV shows made from different viewpoints in general entertain more than those that merely offer comforting reinforcement of one's own ideas. Any costume drama properly done relies just as heavily on period ethics (or a clever subverting of those) as it does on period hairdos (or a clever subverting of those). The more of these foreign ethics, the more we get entertained, and the more we get to think. Gimme space Nazis, gimme Trump in space, gimme Jim Jones in space. And let me worry about whether I want to become them or not.
Timo Saloniemi
It might seem like that to you but that doesn’t mean it’s reality. It’s actually far from it. The rest of what I want to say will not be stated here. This thread seems to be getting off topic anyway.
I always thought TNG was far more conservative than its fans wanted to admit.
Such a show wouldn't be Star Trek, and that's just a fact about the way Star Trek has been since 1966.
Star Trek has been political all through its run. Why would we stop talking about it now?
Since I didn't want to wade into the General Discussion thread, I thought this was the safest place to put this. Our London-based members should check it out!
https://londonist.com/london/transport/picardilly-circus-goes-where-no-station-has-gone-before
https://londonist.com/london/transport/picardilly-circus-goes-where-no-station-has-gone-before
Pardon his French...I hope this is not a spoiler clip
Number 1 is a little assassin!
H&I has been running some TNG promos that tie in with Picard...here's one of them:
This is pretty much the only thread I'm reading in this forum at this point. So excited for Thursday!
Nice promo, but for anyone wanting to catch-up on TNG, I think best bet would be Netflix where you can watch anytime, as long as you want to. I just can't do appointment television anymore. Only time I watch something "broadcast" on TV is live sports.
Well, if they're getting ready to watch PIcard, presumably they can also watch TNG on CBS All Access (but I suppose this only works for US-based audiences).
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