No - you were *incompetent*
- Thread starter Mojomoe
- Start date
In Marc's Klingon dictionary itself, it says that the language can change based on the local dialect of the current Chancellor. Those books on the bridge were probably various dictionaries and study materials on the language of this secretive race. Not every Starfleet communications officer has an ear for languages like Hoshi Sato.
All languages vary based on local dialects. But I doubt American immigrants have to hunt down either a New York or Mid-West dictionary because in most cases the "base language" will suffice.
In learning Spanish, for example, it's understoond the language will vary from South American countries, Mexico, and Spain but there's only one "Spanish" and learning the "base language" will give you what you need to know to talk in any Spanish spaking country.
It makes no sense, even considering multiple dialects, that the Klingon language would be spread across multiple very large books. Learning the desired phrase in any one dialect should've been enough to convice the outpost that "Hey they're OK, they're just from the Southern Province."
But it's also pretty silly the outpost officer was so easily fooled. Uhura may be no Hoshi Sato but the halting, strained, way just said the words, wihout a "Klignon accent", and the stalling time should've been pretty suscpicous too.
I guess the poor guy was a Temp and just didn't care.
Trekker4747 said:
But it's also pretty silly the outpost officer was so easily fooled. Uhura may be no Hoshi Sato but the halting, strained, way just said the words, wihout a "Klignon accent", and the stalling time should've been pretty suscpicous too.
I guess the poor guy was a Temp and just didn't care.
That was actually the main point of the scene, not the comedy sequence of everyone scrambling to remember their "Klingon as a second language" semester in the academy. Another Cold War parallel, this time to the slipshod state of the late soviet army, with a lack of discipline and soldiers not giving a crap about their jobs.
It also underscores the main point of the film. Not only could the Klingons not preserve their planet while spending vast amounts on their military, but unbeknownst to the Federation, they couldn't even preserve their military while spending vast amounts on their military. The Klingons were going up the creek, and even if Praxis hadn't exploded, they still might've needed to sue for peace sooner or later anyway.
David cgc said:
Trekker4747 said:
But it's also pretty silly the outpost officer was so easily fooled. Uhura may be no Hoshi Sato but the halting, strained, way just said the words, wihout a "Klignon accent", and the stalling time should've been pretty suscpicous too.
I guess the poor guy was a Temp and just didn't care.
That was actually the main point of the scene, not the comedy sequence of everyone scrambling to remember their "Klingon as a second language" semester in the academy. Another Cold War parallel, this time to the slipshod state of the late soviet army, with a lack of discipline and soldiers not giving a crap about their jobs.
It also underscores the main point of the film. Not only could the Klingons not preserve their planet while spending vast amounts on their military, but unbeknownst to the Federation, they couldn't even preserve their military while spending vast amounts on their military. The Klingons were going up the creek, and even if Praxis hadn't exploded, they still might've needed to sue for peace sooner or later anyway.
Weren't the Klingons drinking, too? When I jog my memory, sometimes dust flies out, but I think I remember it as so.
While I can genuinely see that, for ME, it struck me like the "I know this ship like the back of my hand (head clunk)" thing with Scotty in TFF did with some fans. It just seemed more to be at the EXPENSE of the character than fun found within them (which they've all previously shown they are capable of with an adequate script). 
sbk1234 said:
Mrsspock, you're fast becoming the biggest boost to my self-esteme! :thumbsup: Thanks for continuing to recognize my superior insights!
I think your right on the money. I agree with alot of what you say, I seem to struggle though, in finding the right written words to express myself. So I just go behind you! LOLOLOL fearless leader! LOL
I think the difference is TFF bit with Scotty lowered his character to a level of absurd incompetance. The joke was "Hey, the engineer knows the ship but he bumped his head. Ha Ha Ha!" However in TUC, the sequence showed Uhura dealing with an absurd situation, and being competant enough to get away with it.
As I see it, anyway.
As I see it, anyway.
The premise for needing the books is OK (can't use the translator). The execution is OK if you by the premise that no one on the Enterprise speaks even freshman-level Klingon. Uhura's look when they succeed is great.
It's just that the books themselves are the groaner. Why not at least use PADDs or something like that? BOUND BOOK versions of Klingon-English dictionaries in the 23rd century?
Maybe that was part of the "older look" given to the ship in order to keep TOS from looking as advanced as TNG (the galley; Scotty looking at a paper schematic; the pipes in the corridors; the bunks; etc.).
Long thread...
Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but it's enough to know that McCoy BARELY understood Spock's anatomy and, in fact, probably had to teach himself about Vulcan physiology just to keep from killing him every time he caught a cold. Enterprise had other doctors far more familiar with Vulcan anatomy and medical conditions than McCoy, based on experience.
Now, when exactly would McCoy have had a chance to brush up on Klingon anatomy? Enterprise never captured one for any period of time, never recovered large numbers of Klingon corpses, never had to treat wounded Klingons in large numbers (any of which would have given him some experience to work with).
CMOs in modern navies don't have this problem, because you can be pretty sure the crewmen on the other ship have the same anatomy you do and you don't have to worry about it. Now, imagine the US Navy went to war with a race of superintelligent sea otters. McCoy, seeing one for the first time, might exclaim something like "I'm a doctor, not a veterinarian!" and would be only a little less lost than he would be trying to treat a Klingon whose anatomy is COMPLETELY different from a human to the point where his ribcage, nervous system, blood chemistry, configuration, type, and even number of internal organs are completely different from a human. Not knowing about Spock's double eyelids was more than a little inconvenient; what do you suppose McCoy didn't know about Gorkon's ribcage or the position of his heart? Think it was less than Kirk knew about the giant alien with his balls in his knees?
Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but it's enough to know that McCoy BARELY understood Spock's anatomy and, in fact, probably had to teach himself about Vulcan physiology just to keep from killing him every time he caught a cold. Enterprise had other doctors far more familiar with Vulcan anatomy and medical conditions than McCoy, based on experience.
Now, when exactly would McCoy have had a chance to brush up on Klingon anatomy? Enterprise never captured one for any period of time, never recovered large numbers of Klingon corpses, never had to treat wounded Klingons in large numbers (any of which would have given him some experience to work with).
CMOs in modern navies don't have this problem, because you can be pretty sure the crewmen on the other ship have the same anatomy you do and you don't have to worry about it. Now, imagine the US Navy went to war with a race of superintelligent sea otters. McCoy, seeing one for the first time, might exclaim something like "I'm a doctor, not a veterinarian!" and would be only a little less lost than he would be trying to treat a Klingon whose anatomy is COMPLETELY different from a human to the point where his ribcage, nervous system, blood chemistry, configuration, type, and even number of internal organs are completely different from a human. Not knowing about Spock's double eyelids was more than a little inconvenient; what do you suppose McCoy didn't know about Gorkon's ribcage or the position of his heart? Think it was less than Kirk knew about the giant alien with his balls in his knees?
Well, you did just make the point about having to LEARN spanish.
This would sort of tie in with the bumpy-smooth forehead problem IMO. Most of the smootheheads (victims of the augment virus, apparently) probably hailed from a different ethnic group, or were addopted into a different language group by the 23rd century as cultures and sub-cultures diverged and reformed. Consider, for example, a particularly virulent infection spreading like wildfire across a certain part of a planet that overwhelmingly affects one ethnic group more than others (sickle-cell, for example). If some time in the future that ethnic group becomes dominant in a certain branch of a planet's military or administrative function, then most of your rivals will become pretty used to dealing with them on a day to day basis. So if, for some reason, the majority of all officers in Starfleet speak English (
) the Klingon communications officers will probably be more familiar with that language than, say, Swahili or Russian. And even in that case, both races will be depending mostly on the universal translator to deal with languages neither of them understand.Uhura had to speak to the Klingons with the UT turned off. Turns out these were bumpy Klingons who spoke Southern Klingoniliak instead of the smooth-headed Klingononese she was used to (and Gorkon has a whole staff of bumpy heads... internal regime change in the mid 2080s, methinks). So picture a Japanese intelligence officer plying through a stack of dictionaries trying to hold a conversation with a Navajo code talker... in a way, it's amazing she did as well as she did.
I got the impression that he was more than a little drunk at the time.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
No, he should not know Klingon anatomy, because NOBODY in the Federation knows Klingon anatomy. They've been enemies for 70 years; nobody's ever really been able, or bothered, to make detailed medical examination of a Klingon...
...unless you go by Enterprise of course; there a century before TUC, Phlox was perfectly able to heal Klingons even though presumably he's never seen one...
AAARGGGHH!!! I HATE ENTERPRISE! (Sorry for the Enterprise rant, but it deserves it.)
Ancient pirate law:
The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy, no more, no less.
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