No more Trek Prime?

[fireinthedust]

So (for my first post, no less) what I took out of the movie was that the Trek Prime timeline no longer exists. Reading here I get the feeling that everyone thinks it's an alternate timeline; I heard that much in the movie, sure, but I don't think that's what's happened. I'm pretty sure that, for all intents and purposes, everything from Trek that we know of no longer exists.

Not, mind you, that we're seeing an alternate timeline. No, that this is now Canon.

From a meta-plot POV, I think this holds up: The movie is supposed to revamp the franchise.

Movie: The creators go back in time, eliminate all the "logic" they don't need for this, and start fresh without having to quote Rodenberry unless they want to. Moreover, they use what came before as a guide on the journey forward, with obvious "there's differences" involved (example: scotty on the ice planet, surprising spock-prime)

Trek: Nero goes back in time, blows up Vulcan (the Logic-planet) and 6 billion Vulcans (Trek continuities). However, Spock rescues as many of the Vulcan cultural counsel as he can during the destruction (as many Vulcans as possible). Now Spock-prime is there as a guide for all the remaining 10000 existing Vulcans (the original show, the best of it, as a guide for what we have left).

I know it's a nice dream to assume that all your old merchandise is still continuity. However, as far as the Franchise is concerned... well, we're starting from scratch now. I think arguments to the contrary are lovely wishful-thinking, but I don't think it's realistic. I mean, it's not like the Ultimate Universe in Marvel with varient Earth's with Zombies, Ultimate and Prime continuities who can travel to meet each other.
I don't think that idea has punch, has teeth, and fits with Star Trek.

At least as I see it.

 

[God Magnus]

So (for my first post, no less) what I took out of the movie was that the Trek Prime timeline no longer exists.

Someone's going to get annoyed at me for repeating myself, but I just can't let this one go (maybe I'll get tired of it soon). The Prime timeline still exists. If you read the "Countdown" prequel comic, once Nero and Spock vanish, the Enterprise-E searches for them but can't find them. That timeline still exists and will go on.

 

[JonWes]

I don't understand how there is any confusion about this after the movie PAINSTAKINGLY takes time out of the plot to say THIS IS AN ALTERNATE TIME LINE.

Uhura says the exact phrase! I mean, people can think whatever they like but clearly the writers (who also wrote the Countdown book) clearly meant for the "Prime" universe to keep continuing as the above poster mentioned. Now whether you want to argue that now this is the prime time line and our old time line is an alternate or whatever.... that's fine... and ultimately pointless. Whatever you want to call the two time lines... both exist.

 

[John Vasiliou]

Even if it's a new timeline they're still out there on a 5 year mission.

So alot of what happened in the Trek Prime timeline could still happen unaltered...but of course some of it won't.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm pretty sure that, for all intents and purposes, everything from Trek that we know of no longer exists.

Well, more like anything we know from Trek will show up to the extent and in whatever way the new folks feel like using it. And if they don't, it won't.

Aside from a few events that they've effectively eliminated as possible because of various deaths and destruction, they've actually enlarged what they can do while ruling very little out.

If they want to use Khan, they'll use him. Or not. Same with anything or anyone else.

 

[Ro Boat]

So (for my first post, no less) what I took out of the movie was that the Trek Prime timeline no longer exists.

Someone's going to get annoyed at me for repeating myself, but I just can't let this one go (maybe I'll get tired of it soon). The Prime timeline still exists. If you read the "Countdown" prequel comic, once Nero and Spock vanish, the Enterprise-E searches for them but can't find them. That timeline still exists and will go on.

You wouldn't need to repeat yourself if people didn't post the same point three times per day, everyday. Let me sum up the other counter arguments to save other folks time:

DVDs still on shelf
Parallels (TNG)
Mirror Universe
New books
Nero and Spock exist
Black hole gateway
Blah, Blah, Blah

Did I miss something?

 

[anothertrekfan]

The black hole remains intact in the prime universe so that means the prime universe will continue to exist. The black hole is like a gateway to this new alternate reality. I would assume if the black hole ever collapsed, then the new timeline could possibly overwrite the prime timeline but I've never known black holes to just disappear. This is my take on the whole situation.

 

[anothertrekfan]

So (for my first post, no less) what I took out of the movie was that the Trek Prime timeline no longer exists.

Someone's going to get annoyed at me for repeating myself, but I just can't let this one go (maybe I'll get tired of it soon). The Prime timeline still exists. If you read the "Countdown" prequel comic, once Nero and Spock vanish, the Enterprise-E searches for them but can't find them. That timeline still exists and will go on.

You wouldn't need to repeat yourself if people didn't post the same point three times per day, everyday. Let me sum up the other counter arguments to save other folks time:

DVDs still on shelf
Parallels (TNG)
Mirror Universe
New books
Nero and Spock exist
Black hole gateway
Blah, Blah, Blah

Did I miss something?

You proved my point before I saw your post.

 

[fireinthedust]

no no no no,


I mean narratively. That's what's been done. Moreover, I don't know about you lot, but I'm tired of every major media venture in geekdom having alternate universe versions of itself. It's a tacky way to produce comic storylines, and a tired, tired trope.

Yes, I get the whole Dark Mirror episodes (original, ds9, books where good-version Picard fends off evil-version Picard). And, come to think of it, I can see the comics and book sales salivating off this (the way Star Wars continues to spew new material), the chance to have Prime Kirk meet new Kirk, or alternate versions of TNG meet up with new TNG.

I think it speaks to the OCD need to "explain" every aspect of the Star Trek universe that every aspect of it is untouchably sacred material, and that every morsel of every episode be rated Canon or non-Canon.

I also think it's one of the reasons the movie escaped old-canon Star Trek. There are no options for advancement with old trek. There is no new creativity. The reality of the media is that, while the older series could live on in comic books, no new movies, shows, etc. are really going to be made with them.
Sure, like Star Wars, books can continue to come out. But how many stories are coming out about ships *other than* the Enterprise or show ships?

It's like how there are so few non-movie star wars books (ie: about the film characters' continuing adventures).

 

[miraclefan]

Anybody think we may see a ''CROSS-OVER'' event!?

 

[RandyS]

So (for my first post, no less) what I took out of the movie was that the Trek Prime timeline no longer exists.

Someone's going to get annoyed at me for repeating myself, but I just can't let this one go (maybe I'll get tired of it soon). The Prime timeline still exists. If you read the "Countdown" prequel comic, once Nero and Spock vanish, the Enterprise-E searches for them but can't find them. That timeline still exists and will go on.

You wouldn't need to repeat yourself if people didn't post the same point three times per day, everyday. Let me sum up the other counter arguments to save other folks time:

DVDs still on shelf
Parallels (TNG)
Mirror Universe
New books
Nero and Spock exist
Black hole gateway
Blah, Blah, Blah

Did I miss something?

Yeah. OLD books still on the shelf too.

You're right. Not one damn thing is lost. Sure, Vulcan has been wiped out and Amanda's dead about forty years too early, but this is STAR TREK. There are ways around this stuff.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The Prime Universe still exists, that online game is supposed to take place in it. That timeline they are even references that Spock and Nero disappeared after Romulas was destroyed and are presumed dead.

 

[nx1701g]

The Prime Universe still exists, that online game is supposed to take place in it. That timeline they are even references that Spock and Nero disappeared after Romulas was destroyed and are presumed dead.

Plus the events of the film (the backstory involving Nero - pretty much the entire Countdown Comic) is covered in the 2387 history for the game. They're preparing to post 2388. Prime still exists.

 

[I am not Spock]

After I saw the new Trek, I went home and watched my copies of Generations and TOS 'Shore Leave'. Guess what? The DVDs still exist. JJ didn't have them all destroyed. In fact, I purchased some DS9 and TNG DVDs today.

 

[nx1701g]

After I saw the new Trek, I went home and watched my copies of Generations and TOS 'Shore Leave'. Guess what? The DVDs still exist. JJ didn't have them all destroyed. In fact, I purchased some DS9 and TNG DVDs today.

Little funny aside: three of my Trek DVDs stopped working the same day as I saw the new movie. One of which included my copy of Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[superdeluxe]

I know it's a nice dream to assume that all your old merchandise is still continuity.

Wait so even though the comic says it is a alternate universe, JJ Abrams says it is a alternate universe, the writers say it is a alternate universe, and in the movie it mentions it is a alternate universe, you think people that follow this line of thinking is dreaming.

OK.

 

[saddestmoon]

[sound of a coyote howling in the desert, tumbleweed rolling by the tundra on the desert breeze, crickets chirping...]

 

[Checkmate]

TNG "Parallels"

Nuff said.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think as long as CBS Studios is concerned, the original timeline/universe hasn't been changed at all. They own the TV shows, not the Viacom-owned Paramount Pictures (long and complicated story), and will continue to pimp them for the foreseeable future.

In some ways, the whole point of Star Trek XI was to create a New Star Trek Universe for future movies that could exist independently of the TV shows and give the original characters a clean slate.

Conversely, any new Trek TV Project could completely ignore Star Trek XI and continue the original timeline.